http://ichthys.com/ 
Eschatology Issues CLVI

Question #1:
 Hey Dr. Luginbill, 

Speaking of reddit, I found the following response from a continuationist (sign gift supporter). I know how I would respond but I'm curious to see how you would answer (it helps in further sharpening my own response hypothetically in case I'm missing something). The first one... 
Continuationism is the biblical position because we are explicitly commanded to seek spiritual gifts, and nowhere in Scripture is that command revoked. Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 14:1, “Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.” This instruction is given to the Church—not just the early church—but the Body of Christ across all time. Cessationists often quote 1 Corinthians 13:8–10: “Love never ends. But as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away.” They claim “the perfect” refers to the completed canon of Scripture. But Paul continues in verse 12: “Now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face.” That is clearly not the Bible—that is Jesus. “The perfect” is Christ’s return, when we will see Him face to face and know fully. Paul also writes in Ephesians 4:13 that the gifts are given “until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, and become mature.” So ask yourself: Are we there yet? Is the Church globally unified, fully mature, lacking nothing? Clearly not. Therefore, the need for the gifts of the Spirit remains. Cessationists often ask, “Why aren’t you healing everyone in hospitals?”—as if the gift of healing works like a superpower on demand. But even Paul, who clearly had the gift of healing, couldn’t heal everyone. In 2 Timothy 4:20, he left Trophimus sick in Miletus. In 1 Timothy 5:23, he advised Timothy to use wine for his stomach and frequent ailments—healing was not automatic. The gifts were never about control, but about God working through His people according to His will. They also argue that miracles faded toward the end of Acts—but that’s not true. In Acts 28, one of the final chapters, Paul heals Publius’s father and then many others on the island of Malta. That’s near the end of his ministry—gifts still fully active. Now, some people say, “What about all the false healings and fake prophets?” And to that we say: yes—it’s a real and grievous problem. It’s a plague on Christianity, and it has led many to doubt what is actually biblical. But our truth doesn’t come from experience; it comes from God’s Word. Abuse of the gifts is not a reason to reject them—it’s a reason to pursue them biblically. Paul dealt with the same issues in Corinth—misuse, arrogance, disorder—but he never said, “Stop using the gifts.” He taught them how to use them rightly. So until we are unified in the faith, until we see Jesus face to face, we are still under the clear instruction of Scripture: “earnestly desire the spiritual gifts.” Let’s hold fast to the Word, not to extremes or abuses—on either side.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/comments/1igbfho/thoughts_on_spiritual_gifts_signs_and_wonders/ 
And the second one... do you think what this person says is reasonable? It doesn't seem unreasonable to me (ignoring the gift of prophecy and apostleship and focusing more on tongues, healings, and miracles here). 
I don’t think they have ceased to exist as a rule. But I don’t expect to see them in use in most instances we find ourselves in today. Just as I don’t think demon possession and the like have ceased to exist, but I do not expect to see them in our culture. When Paul talks about spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12 and 14, he pairs the discussions with references to the Body of Christ and our roles in it. Explicitly, whatever the Spirit gifts us to do is for the benefit of the Church, His Body. To me, this says that gifting is less about “determining your spiritual gifts” and more about participation in the body. 1 Corinthians 12 also speaks about the “variety” of spiritual gifting, which suggests that we should not expect only a specific number or type of gift. Spiritual gifting could look like anything; prophecy, tongues, etc are just a few examples, not a definitive list. But the purpose of the gifting is always the blessing and edification of the Body. So, it stands to reason that the Spirit’s gifting may look different today than it did 2000 years ago. Why? Because the Church looks different, the culture looks different, and the world looks different. The same Spirit is at work, but His work may look different in different times and cultures. For example: when a missionary talks about absolutely unnatural healings and miracles occurring when introducing the gospel to an unreached people, I believe them. I can see how the Spirit would use those gifts for the benefit of those people, that they may see and believe. Similarly, when missionaries talk about the absolutely unbelievable demonic things they’ve seen when they introduce the gospel to an unreached people, I believe them. I can see how Satan would use those tactics to cause people to fear the missionaries and the message. But in the West, where the Church’s presence is known and recognized, where the name of Jesus is known and understood (if not believed in), and where the word of God is so easily accessible... I do not expect to see demon possessions and such things. Because I do not see how Satan’s use of those tactics will accomplish his mission. Similarly, in the West, I do not expect to see gifts of prophecy, healing, etc, because I see the Spirit gifting in many ways and I do not see how those specific gifts would be such a benefit to the Church (in the West) as it is now. 
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bible/comments/x2ozki/gifts_of_the_holy_spirit/ 
Thanks for the encouragement on preparation and I feel more at peace about the issue now. Second-guessing the languages has been a big problem for me for a while and that hasn't done me much good (it's been too much of a discouragement and distraction). 

You wrote: In terms of grammar, studying English grammar is a complete waste of time, IHMO. If you wanted to learn how language works and do so in a way that is applicable to understanding Greek and Hebrew, well, that is why we study Latin (but that's another hill to climb). 

Interesting. Hypothetically speaking (If I had the time and felt led to them), Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic would be the languages I would target. I guess I could add Latin to that list too! That's a lot, though. 

[omitted]

In Christ, 
Response #1:
Okay, well I'll be keeping this in my prayers. Let me know what you decide.

On the Reddit issue, I'm happy to answer any questions you have about the topic, but I'm not inclined to interact with these confused postings. I'm wondering why you would. If these individuals are responding to something you've written, then, in an apologetic vein, you would want to weigh your response. But I can't see how engaging with this sort of thing unprovoked would be a good idea. That's an application you get to make for yourself, of course, but I'd rather not do it. Show me someone who has the gift of healing by touch, and I have a number of achy joints they can lay their hands on. But of course no one has this gift because it hasn't been given in nearly 2K years (same with prophecy, tongues, exorcism, etc.). The RC's believe in people "doing miracles" and that is, if I'm not mistaken, a requirement of sainthood. The truth is that we are all saints, that is, all who are believers in Jesus Christ, but even among that group very few are acting in a sanctified fashion. Pretending that miracles and sign gifts still exist and playing at them is one of the least sanctified things I can think of.

Keeping you in my prayers, my friend.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #2:
 Hey Dr. Luginbill, (sorry if there's a lot of questions mixed in here). 

No worries, they're responding to a question someone asked, so nothing to do with me (I just happened to notice these responses from the outside because they are posted publicly; nothing to do with my website). I haven't joined any of these groups and I'm not sure I will (though I'm going to give that time to think on). 

Just to start, but I've heard some say the gift of prophecy can refer to teaching or preaching the Word. Is this true? I mean, I don't like using the word "prophecy" because that can be quite confusing and misleading (the Spirit no longer directly communicates to believers to proclaim new truth and/or revelation). 

In 1 Corinthians 13:10, does "the perfect" (referring more to a concrete thing and less of a concept as you've said) have to be interpreted as referring to the Word of God? In what way does the word refer to a "concrete thing" instead of a concept (the return of Christ)? The grammar I'm guessing? I do remember you saying it's not as if there are two things here but one thing that encompasses all of this- "no more partial knowledge in the shorter term (Bible replaces temporary gifts) or in the longer term (complete knowledge when we see the Lord in resurrection). 

How specifically do verses eight to ten tell us that tongues (the gift) will stop on their own long before the return of Christ? 

1 Corinthians 13 speaks of knowledge, tongues, and prophecy as ceasing (both the gifts and their results). However, there is no mention of healings or miracles in that list. The sign gift supporters would then say there is not a single verse in the Bible that says these gifts were temporary and have since ceased. Since, as pastor teachers, we need to back up what we teach with Scripture, how should we respond to this when they say there isn't a single verse that says they (healings, miracles) will disappear? Or are we meant to understand that since the gift of tongues and prophecy have since vanished that all the others have as well? As in, these are only two examples and we are meant to put two and two together by concluding all the miraculous gifts ceased long ago? 

In regards to what the one poster in the last excerpt I posted in my last email to you was saying, do you think it possible that the gifts may be operative momentarily at special times or moments in more challenging circumstances/places when they might be needed? As in, they aren't permanent gifts (those have, as we both believe, all ceased) but "of the moment" type experiences (tongues, miracles, healings) when God may choose them to help advance the gospel or reach the lost? I know you said you weren't inclined to engage or answer either of these posters, but do you think the following quote is reasonable or a slim possibility (that's all I'm asking and Ill let it drop after that)- 
"For example: when a missionary talks about absolutely unnatural healings and miracles occurring when introducing the gospel to an unreached people, I believe them. I can see how the Spirit would use those gifts for the benefit of those people, that they may see and believe. Similarly, when missionaries talk about the absolutely unbelievable demonic things they’ve seen when they introduce the gospel to an unreached people, I believe them. I can see how Satan would use those tactics to cause people to fear the missionaries and the message. But in the West, where the Church’s presence is known and recognized, where the name of Jesus is known and understood (if not believed in), and where the word of God is so easily accessible... I do not expect to see demon possessions and such things. Because I do not see how Satan’s use of those tactics will accomplish his mission. Similarly, in the West, I do not expect to see gifts of prophecy, healing, etc, because I see the Spirit gifting in many ways and I do not see how those specific gifts would be such a benefit to the Church (in the West) as it is now." 
Obviously, there are no more apostles (the type and authority of the twelve, although we do have missionaries/evangelists "one sent out"). There are no more prophets because we have the completed canon and so there is no need (God is not giving any new truth or revelation that we don't already have contained in His Word). But although the gift of tongues, healing, and miraculous powers have ceased, (the crux of what I'm asking above), do you think it possible that God may occasionally make use of them at special (but temporary) and unique times in our modern day? I've mentioned this to someone before and they responded that that isn't the same as having the gift to do these things commonly for the rest of one's life- exactly, and that's my point. 

In Christ, 
Response #2:
Prophecy can be "forth-telling" as well as foretelling, but only prophets prophecy. Prophecy is giving information straight from God, not indirectly from the Bible. In other words, true prophecy involves God giving a message directly to someone without any intermediary person or source. I.e., it's a "God told me" scenario – and that is what they are claiming – rather than, "I find this in scripture". So, no, there is no current prophecy and no prophets (except in heaven).

On 1st Corinthians 13:10, here is my translation:
But when what is complete shall have come on the scene (i.e., the completed Bible available to a mature Church), all partial measures shall be done away with.
1st Corinthians 13:10
A few things to note, and then I'll give you some links. First, note that at this point of Paul's writing the epistle, "the perfect" has not yet arrived. Is there any other thing that might described as "the perfect thing" besides the Bible that has yet to arrive? The Greek says, literally, "the complete/perfect thing", with "thing" being a necessary part of the translation because the article and its adjectives are neuter. If Christ were meant, the pronoun would have to have been masculine. "The return of Christ" in scripture is referred to as His parousia (link). The second advent is never referred to elsewhere as "perfect/complete" nor "a thing". The only reason to try to connect those two is precisely to support this false position by "neutering" this passage (no pun intended).

Secondly, the context here is one of spiritual gifts, not the return of Christ. Specifically, Paul is deliberately drawing a contrast between these sign gifts and "the perfect/complete thing" ("But when what is complete shall have come on the scene, all partial measures shall be done away with"). So the phrase to teleion, "the perfect/complete" is being placed in direct opposition to "the partial" (to ek merous), i.e., it is not permissible to separate them in any interpretation. Therefore it is fair to assume that there is a very close relationship between the two, whatever the two are. Since "the partial" are special spiritual gifts for communicating God's Word, deducing that the not-yet-at-that-time-complete Bible, God's full communication of His truth for us (whose presence will make those temporary truth-providing gifts unnecessary), is not only legitimate but in my view unavoidable.
God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son.
Hebrews 1:1-2a NKJV
In the past, God used various means to communicate the truth, but now the Son is both the messenger and the message in His capacity as the Living Word of God whose communication to us today is exclusively through the written Word of God, all past methods now being defunct; those prior methods have all now been discontinued in order that today we might focus on the truth in its most distilled form: the Bible, "the perfect/completed thing" for communicating the truth.

To sum up, it is in my view beyond question that "the perfect/complete" must be the Bible. And on the other hand, no other possibility will hold water (i.e., it is not enough for doubters to disparage the correct interpretation; they have to suggest something that works based on the analysis above).

There are other proofs (of the correct view) and other objections (to false views) as well. Here are some links to where this has been discussed in the past:
In BB 5: the perfect
That which is perfect
Grammar of "the perfect"
The Perfection of the Bible (in BB 7)
Re: "The sign gift supporters would then say there is not a single verse in the Bible that says these gifts were temporary and have since ceased." 
Love never falls [into inactivity]. But whether [we are talking about gifts of] prophecy, they will cease, or about [gifts of] tongues, they will come to a stop, or [about the gift of] knowledge, it will be done away with.
1st Corinthians 13:8
This verse clearly indicates that these gifts which Paul uses as short-hand for all miraculous gifts (three sets to balance the three key virtues "faith, hope and love") will come to an end. 

*Since these temporary gifts were in place until the Bible was complete, of course the Bible (at the time Paul wrote this) doesn't say that they HAVE ceased because they only ceased AFTER "the perfect" came.

Re: "[whether we]. . . are meant to put two and two together": Putting "two and two together" is called "Bible teaching". And we teachers are responsible to the Lord first and foremost to do it right. It is good and right to answer legitimate questions people may have, but we are not required to chase down all objections to our teaching when we know for certain through diligent study that our teaching is correct. I can tell you that there is absolutely nothing that you would ever teach to which someone will not object in one way or another. We do need to be solid in our faith about what we teach by basing it on the scriptures and our detailed understanding of them. In this case, it's not a question of interpretation; it's what the Bible says. "The perfect" in this context is in opposition to "the partial", which means everything "partial". The fact that Paul doesn't spell out everything is not an argument. Was he supposed to mention exorcism here too, or else we feel free to engage in it (as some are doing)? He called down blindness on Elymas (Acts 13:9-12). Can we do that too, since Paul doesn't list it specifically? Can we claim to be apostles (some do; they do not find it at all "obvious" as you and I do)? The Bible never says that the gift of apostleship ceased to be given either. One could go on.

Honestly, I would be more concerned about the damage that is being done to many and which could be done to any believer if we give them so much as the hint of idea that healing by touch is possible or that "doing miracles" is possible, etc., etc. Which do you think the Lord would be more upset with? Not giving a stiff-necked immature believer (or pretend believer) an answer they would find acceptable (they will never find any answer acceptable), or contributing to the spiritual destruction of some immature believer who gets seduced by lies of this sort?

As I mentioned before, show me an actual healing, an actual instance of speaking in tongues, or exorcism, or proof of apostleship, and then we'll talk. In the meantime, the Bible, "the perfect" states very clearly that such partial gifts were temporary. And anyone who reads the Bible and studies it diligently knows that the truth therein is absolutely sufficient for us in every way, empowered by the Holy Spirit.

Finally, of course, God can do whatever He wants whenever He wants (Ps.115:3). But that is far cry from some claim that He has in fact done this or that (especially when, as in this case, the Bible says that He won't). Any human being can claim anything. If you see something with your own eyes, you have some right to put some stock in it (but there are ways you could be mistaken: e.g., Mk.13:22). But to believe a third party report, namely as in your email someone who was not there claiming that something happened to or through some other unnamed person), that is no basis for any sane conclusion. People lie all the time. Even people who claim to be Christians. We believe the Bible, not third party reports (link).

Hope this is helpful, my friend! Keeping you in my daily prayers.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #3:
Hey Dr. Luginbill, 

Re: "It is good and right to answer legitimate questions people may have, but we are not required to chase down all objections to our teaching when we know from certain that our teaching is correct."

Yes and, admittedly, this is one of my struggles as you've seen. It may be a strength helping me to unlearn something false but not when dealing with (as you said) something we know is true and that is when it becomes more of a weakness. I have a tendency to randomly look into opposing arguments and latch on to them in an attempt to lay them to rest as quickly as possible. But I suppose I just need to stay focused on the big picture (the foundational truths and arguments) and let the details work themselves out if someone happens to ask me about them. 

So when you say, "I can tell you that there is absolutely nothing that you would ever teach to which someone will not object in one way or another," you are absolutely right and good point. It's something I need to keep in mind. 

I did read through all the links you posted and have, admittedly, read through them before but forgot some of the details contained in some of them. I suppose my main question was (all the smaller more detailed questions aside), "do you think it possible that the gifts may be operative momentarily at special times or moments in more challenging circumstances/places when they might be needed? As in, they aren't permanent gifts (those have, as we both believe, all ceased) but "of the moment" type experiences (tongues, miracles, healings) when God may choose them to help advance the gospel or reach the lost?" You seem to have answered this question, but if I may pose it at a different angle one last time before moving on (perhaps I'm playing devil's advocate here)... 

We believe the sign gifts have been discontinued. However, my understanding of a spiritual gift (take teaching, for instance) is that once you receive it you have it permanently for life and there is no revoking it unless God chooses to do so (which I doubt He would because the gift(s) you have is the gift(s) you have). So you take the above sentences I wrote and have in italics above. To me, this would not constitute possessing the gift since God has (hypothetically for the sake of argument) only allowed their empowerment at special and unique times that will never (hypothetically) occur again in the person's life thereafter. Or they would be extremely rare. So 1 Corinthians 13 is true that the sign gifts have disappeared and are no longer given, but does that mean they may not occasionally be seen temporarily for special circumstances and events (not permanent and, therefore, not an actual gift)?

So, for instance, what if a group of missionaries are unable to get Bibles to a group of people in some distant and remote place and translate it into their language so that it becomes useful to them? I have heard that discerning, learning, and translating certain languages in some of the most remote parts of the world can and has taken years to accomplish so that some missionaries may spend months, if not years just trying to get the gospel message out to a specific people they came into contact with long before. Sure, the Canon is complete, but what of people who can't benefit from it for a while due to circumstances out of their control? In that case, do you think it possible that miraculous stop gaps of some kind (possibly the sign gifts) may temporarily come to life during periods like that? Perhaps I'm "circling" this too much but I don't think it's unreasonable to consider. 

On "the perfect," understood and agreed. One last question on that. You said the Greek literally says "the perfect/complete thing." The word "thing" is what the best and original manuscripts contain? As in, that word is used directly or it is implied in such a way so that translating it as "thing" is inescapable because of the grammar? 

Understood and agreed on everything else you wrote. 

Lastly, so many believers claim to have miraculous gifts (I read of one man who said he has spoken in tongues for thirty years). These are direct witnesses. To me, it would be unreasonable to suppose that every individual out of the thousands who claim these gifts is lying. Like, it seems to me that if thousands of people are claiming something, I don't see how all of them can be liars (even if some of them may be or surely are- many do knowingly fake tongues and healings, as only two examples). It would also be a grievous insult to so many of our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. With that said, if many of them aren't lying, then would it just be mistaken occurrences? Obviously, none of these people have the gift and I don't believe them when they say they do (we believe Scripture), but it seems many are sincere and honest about their experiences but are confused because they believe in something that really isn't what they think it is. Do you think this is the case? They are confused and think they have the real deal but they don't? Or could some of this be attributed to demonic activity? Like, believers can't be possessed but they can come under demonic attack and influence if they open themselves up to it. What other possibilities are there? Like, many charismatics or what have you legit believe they have these gifts so that they don't think they're lying. Would we just say they're confused and or misinterpreting events? 

In Christ, 
Response #3:
Re: "weakness". Where to stop and start in this sort of thing is a judgment call always. The two extremes are to be avoided, i.e., completely ignoring all objections on the one hand or being dragged into an endless swamp of second guessing on the other. We strive to give objections the consideration they deserve through correctly estimating their worth early on and avoid being paralyzed when solutions are not achievable in a reasonable amount of time, especially if these efforts are counterproductive to our mission of feeding Christ's flock.

Re: "permanent gifts". I don't know of a scripture which actually says that but it is a reasonable assumption . . . for gifts which are themselves permanent. Some gifts were always meant to be temporary. Why, for example, did Paul leave Trophimus "sick on Miletus" (2Tim.4:20) if the gift of touch healing was permanent (cf. Acts 28:8)? As mentioned, God can do whatever He wishes. But just because someone says He has done something doesn't make it true. We believe the Bible, not people.

In terms of God doing miraculous things, He does them all the time. Is there any Christian who has been in the faith for any length of time who has not experienced this? But there is a difference between what God chooses to do for us and what we have the ability to do for ourselves (through the Spirit) through the gifts we've been given. God can cause someone to be healed – and He does that all the time. I've never seen a legitimate case of anyone touching someone else and healing them.

Re: "the word 'thing' ": Greek does have a word that means "thing" but it is very rarely used as such (it's mostly plural and as such means "money"). Greek (Latin too) doesn't need that word because it has a neuter gender. The text says "the perfect [neuter singular]". Translating merely as "the perfect" fails to make it clear that this is singular and neuter; only by adding the English word "thing" do we get a truly correct representation. If English adjectives still had case/gender/number, that wouldn't be necessary, but they do not. So, yes, it is there, but not in the way in which it is "there" in English.

Re: "To me, it would be unreasonable to suppose that every individual out of the thousands who claim these gifts is lying." In that case, I would strongly advise you never to put your life savings into the hands of any investment professional (please do it yourself – you can trust yourself). As a very wise and very good lawyer told me one time, "In my experience, people lie". Let's find one who isn't lying about this tongues issue first, and then we can perhaps be more charitable. We Christians are supposed to be loving, but that doesn't mean "stupid". As our Lord told us, while being harmless as doves we must also be wise as serpents. That doesn't mean we do wrong. It means we are wary of people because people do wrong. And they do wrong from all manner of motivations, even in many if not most cases rationalizing the wrong they do as actually "good". I am sure that is the case for many of the charismatic types. They don't want to seem deficient; they don't want to undermine the "legitimate" gifts of others; they want their movement about which they "feel" so good to be perceived as special, "and even if I'm not really speaking in tongues, brother and sister XYZ certainly are . . . and maybe just maybe I am too!" Rationalization and redefinition (i.e., "whatever babbling I'm doing must be a tongue if not of men then possibly of angels") are just two of the many explanations for why so many people claim to be speaking in tongues when in fact they are not. 
Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Revelation 19:20 NKJV
We need to be careful, not only for ourselves but for the sake of the sheep whose protection is our primary concern. Deception is the devil's stock in trade. Pastor-teachers in particular need to take care not to be deceived. Again, just because someone says something doesn't make it true; just because we can't imagine some particular person doing wrong or attempting to deceive us doesn't mean they aren't/won't.
The old prophet answered, “I too am a prophet, as you are. And an angel said to me by the word of the LORD: ‘Bring him back with you to your house so that he may eat bread and drink water.' ” But he was lying to him.
1st Kings 18:13 NIV

Johanan son of Kareah and all the army officers still in the open country came to Gedaliah at Mizpah and said to him, “Don’t you know that Baalis king of the Ammonites has sent Ishmael son of Nethaniah to take your life?” But Gedaliah son of Ahikam did not believe them. Then Johanan son of Kareah said privately to Gedaliah in Mizpah, “Let me go and kill Ishmael son of Nethaniah, and no one will know it. Why should he take your life and cause all the Jews who are gathered around you to be scattered and the remnant of Judah to perish?” But Gedaliah son of Ahikam said to Johanan son of Kareah, “Don’t do such a thing! What you are saying about Ishmael is not true.”
Jeremiah 40:13-16 NIV
In both of these instances, believing a lie on the one hand and failing to accept that people do wrong on the other led to the death of the men respectively who refused to be "wise as serpents". During the Tribulation, there will be many false miracles, false in the sense of coming from a demonic source but seemingly legitimate to the world at large, "great signs and wonders [able] to deceive, if possible, even the elect" (Matt.24:24). No believer can ever afford to be overly credulous, especially not pastor-teachers, and especially not during the Tribulation. As I've mentioned to you before, my friend, we believe God and His Word – all others "pay cash".

Keeping you in my prayers, my friend.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #4:
Pardon me for the separate email, but just one last question on the perfect for clarity's sake. 

You wrote: "A few things to note, and then I'll give you some links. First, note that at this point of Paul's writing the epistle, "the perfect" has not yet arrived. Is there any other thing else besides the Bible that has yet to arrive? The Greek says, literally, "the complete/perfect thing", with "thing" being a necessary part of the translation because the article and its adjectives are neuter. If Christ were meant, it would have to have been masculine. "The return of Christ" in scripture is referred to as His parousia (link). The second advent is never referred to elsewhere as "perfect/complete" nor "a thing". The only reason to try to connect the two is precisely to support this false position. "

So it is the case that translating verse ten as the return of Christ doesn't work here. But I'm confused...by Christ in the bold above, did you mean to say "the return of Christ?" But what if you take away "the return of Christ" (parousia) and just insert Christ, interpreting the perfect thing as Christ Himself (which would still refer to His return just not with that wording)? Can the verse be interpreted that way or is that not allowable because, like you said, it would have to be masculine? I just wanted to clear that part up. 

So if we just say "Christ," wouldn't that refer less to a concept and more to a concrete thing (although I don't like referring to our Savior as a "thing")? 

In Christ, 
Response #4:
I'm happy with what I wrote. Referring to Christ's return is referring to Him, isn't it? He is not a "thing". This would be a strange way to put things in English, if that were what was meant, stranger still in Greek, and strangest of all in the Bible. What in the context allows us to even make that connection? Since there is nothing that lets us do so, Paul would have had to specify, if that is what he had meant (it was not). If he had meant that and wanted to use short hand, as mentioned in the prior message, there is a word for the second advent: parousia, which means "return" in the NT. But that word is not present. If we were meant to supply it (i.e., fill in the blank), then "the perfect" to mean "perfect return" would be feminine to agree with the to-be-supplied noun, parousia, a feminine noun. That is the way Greek works.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #5:
Hi Bob, 

Long time! I think at some point in the last year I read about how after the End of All Things, God would so completely stamp the devil and the fallen angels out of existence that no one would remember life on earth, nor would anyone remember satan (I intentionally write that with a lowercase "s") to the point that even his name would be erased from our collective memory.

Do I have that right? I did a few cursory searches, but couldn't find what I was looking for and couldn't remember whether I saw the above in your Satanic Rebellion series, or the Coming Tribulation... or maybe somewhere else. So, I figured I'd reach out to you. Also, if it's true that satan and the fallen angels won't be thought of after we leave this horrid, wretched abomination called life — is this a known fact beyond summation or conjecture?

Disclaimer: I might have this whole scenario all wrong, and if that's the case, I welcome any and all rectification.

In case they might be helpful, I have attached 10 edits that I found while going through your replies in the "Emails" section on your website. I figure that, rather than send you one or two here and there, I'll send them in groups of 10 or so at a time. Please take these corrections, not with one grain of salt, but with 10 grains, as I'm not an English scholar; also noteworthy is that I'm better at spotting typos than grammatical errors, because, again, I have no credentials and am self-taught. 

God bless, 
Response #5:
Good to hear from you! And thanks for the typo help. Corrections made and will be updated when I do my next upload to the server.

Re: "no one would remember life on earth". You're probably thinking of this verse:
See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.
Isaiah 65:17 NIV
In that context, the "former things" are the old heavens and the old earth. Does that mean we won't remember who we were or what happened on earth? That seems impossible. We're going to be rewarded (or not) for what we've done. How will we not remember that? Surely we're not going to lose the Bible. And the Bible has much to say about individual believers – and the devil as well. God the Father has said that He will wipe away our tears (Rev.7:17; 21:4). At the very least this means that we won't experience pain or regret or anger or embarrassment about what went on down here. And it seems to me very likely that, being in the presence of His glory, being face to face with our dear Lord Jesus Christ, being united altogether as one Church and one perfect family of God in the wonders of New Jerusalem, that the former things won't impinge on our consciousnesses very often. How often do you remember kindergarten? To an even greater degree we will probably have no motivation to "think back" about "what was" in the presence of all the wonders which will be ours to enjoy as one perfect Church in the presence of our dear Savior forever.
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1st Corinthians 2:9 KJV
In Jesus our dear Savior,

Bob L.
Question #6:
From what I can tell (and contrary to popular media depictions), angels don't "lose most of their power" when they become demons. For example, when Satan fights Michael later on, it's said he will actually be pretty close to winning (Michael only winning due to the prophecy that he would). The image of the enemy of not having that much power anymore because God is no longer on their side, so they're more limited in what they can do aside from tempt (at least with believers) since He's actively working against them and trying to thwart them through His angels. Only humans agreeing with their schemes through their free will giving into temptation or the person falling for their lies make them actually act in "demony" ways from what I can tell.
Response #6:
Nothing in scripture says anything about "[fallen] angels losing power". Believers always need to keep in mind that our real warfare is spiritual, not what we see. And we can only have an impact on that warfare by trusting the Lord and doing what He wants us to do (grow, progress, minister). That is the way we engage in this warfare, all unbiblical speculation aside. The Gnostics preached getting directly involved by "helping" God fight this fight through various weird and dangerous activities and rites, but any believer with a lick of spiritual common sense should understand that seeking contact with the demonic in any way and from whatever motivation is inviting demon influence and, for unbelievers, demon possession.

So we need not fear demons; we just need to understand that the way we are to engage in this conflict is through spiritual growth, progress and progression, behaving as if the angelic sphere did not even exist – we know it does, of course, but that should have no effect on how we behave as good Christians in the service of our Lord. If we have proper reverence/respect/fear for Him who controls everything, we really do have nothing whatsoever to fear from anyone or anything, seen or unseen.
(31) So what shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? (32) He who did not spare His own Son, but handed Him over for our sake, how will He not also graciously give us everything [we need] along with [that gift of] Him? (33) Who will [dare to] bring charges against God's elect? God is the One who is pronouncing [us] justified. (34) Who is he that condemns [us]? Christ Jesus is the One who died [condemned in our place], and the One, moreover, who was raised from the dead [for us], who is [seated] at the right hand of God, who is also making petitions on our behalf. (35) What will separate us from Christ's love? Tribulation? Or privation? Or persecution? Or hunger? Or destitution? Or danger? Or violence? (36) As it is written, "For your sake we are being put to death all day long. We were accounted as sheep for slaughter". (37) But in all such things we are decisively victorious through Him who loved us [enough to do what He did for us]. (38) For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, neither angelic nor human authorities, neither things present nor things to come, neither heavenly powers, (39) be they the highest [of the elect] or the lowest [of the fallen], nor any other created thing [on this earth] will be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 8:31-39
Here are some links:
BB 2A:  Angelology
Spiritual warfare VIII
SR 4: Satan's World System
Demon Influences
Spiritual Warfare VII
Spiritual Warfare VI
Spiritual Warfare V
Spiritual Warfare IV: Demons, Demonic Influences and Satanic Methodology
Spiritual Warfare III: Peter's 'Angel', Saul's Death, and Strange Events
Spiritual Warfare II
Faith, Hope and Love: Virtue in Spiritual Warfare
Spiritual Warfare
In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #7:
Thanks Bob,

I appreciate your support and honesty about this and I know of course you are right.

I am going through immense emotional and psychological suffering because of this but I assume that this may be because we're nearing the end and also my pushing on with ministry. [omitted] I will always have a roof over my head (unless it is the Lord's will that my property be plundered for His glory in the Tribulation that is). So He is providing for me even in the presence of my enemies (though sadly my enemies are the members of my own household). This has really encouraged me despite my intense suffering through this cruel familial abuse.

As you often have said before 'If the flak doesn't blow us out of the sky, fly on'.
So I will try to fly on even if my wings shake while I fly.

(You can publish this one).

Your friend in Jesus,
Response #7:
After warships are commissioned, the Navy always sends them out on a "shake down" cruise in order to "shake out" potential problems that wouldn't otherwise be foreseen before going into combat. We probably all need similar experiences before the Tribulation starts.

That really is great news you got! 

I pray for you and yours daily.

Thanks for your prayers for me as well, my friend.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #8:
Thanks Bob,

I really was helped a lot by your email postings today in particular, especially the first ones about testing/suffering so thanks for that ministering to me!

After a lot of emotional suffering and personal mental upheavals, I have got my peace back in the Lord with my eyes now fixed on moving forward and firing on all cylinders again. I am at that point again of entrusting it all to the Lord. I reasoned that I went through a horrific abusive familial trauma just before I was saved and even though I only had a mustard seed of faith then, I really did see God move mountains for me! Maybe the mountains this time will move a little slower but it will refine my patience and trust in the Lord who I know loves me and will deliver me. So I need not fear what I am going through at all.

One of the later emails I recognised as my own and it was my updating you on the current climate here. I mentioned a man called John Campbell who is an ex nurse and was covering the pandemic on YouTube when we were all in lockdown. I had big hunches that this guy would be important in laying foundations for the Antichrist religion and I was right! 

I told you that I wasn't as surprised as I should've been that a so called medical professional would be interested in the 'Shroud of Turin'. Well his latest video has two scientists and they are talking in a graveyard about the paranormal and spiritual matters. One of his guests is Neil Oliver who is a regular columnist on GB News which I told you is the UK's version of Fox News. GB News has been an effective pipeline to push populism and conspiracy theory just as the Trump administration has been (see the Q Anon gnostic cult behind Trump).

I thought you and your ministry would be interested. This is a 'boiled frog' enterprise whereby viewers have learned to trust John's medical opinion during the pandemic and so now trusting John about our actual lived reality. Wish I was making this up! As usual there are a few Christians in the comments thinking it is a good thing to talk about ghosts and the paranormal, taking Ayahuasca etc. It's a clever set up...one claims to be a believer in the paranormal, one a complete sceptic and the other a so called Christian. A really sly trick to get the viewers to relate to at least one position/person on screen to identify with whilst they get slowly indoctrinated into accepting Occult/Gnostic teachings (such as energy fields and Plato's cave). In fact the Moonies/Unification Church used these types of techniques during the brainwashing sessions were they deliberately built in self criticism to the lectures so that you weren't as likely to criticise it yourself. It is a cunning way to make seemingly crazy ideas more palatable by pre-empting doubt in the audience. It means the audience are more likely to switch off their own discernment as they are saying the words of criticism themselves. It is a classic 'thought stopping' technique.

It's almost a lesson on how to brainwash an unsuspecting and trusting audience. Really sad that so many people are listening to any of this. So many are frightened by all that is happening in the world and then grab onto the first thing that comes along that looks a little different.

https://youtu.be/lq_8Di8TOBM?si=ORyqZIyRQYU2qOP0

Also I mentioned that Calvin Robinson who is also a media celebrity who went from being Anglican to Roman Catholic priest and is now on alternative media pushing a politicised faith, scary stuff! Notice the host (son of a very famous English film actor) has a cross tattooed to his throat! No doubt to normalise tattoos done for religious reasons. Having one at the front on the throat is not such a far cry from having one on the forehead after all!

https://youtu.be/AUI2YIG1BUw?si=zvJBrjJvFHDhVu_3

I really hope to get on my feet again very soon. The last week or so has really pummelled me both mentally, emotionally and physically.

In Jesus,
Response #8:
I had no doubts but that you would recover quickly. It's never easy to pull out of dependency of any kind, but I am confident that with the Spirit's help and your love for the truth you will be able to do so. Emotional healing, like all other healing we require, will come to those who trust Him.
"For I am the LORD, who heals you.”
Exodus 15:26b

Praise the LORD, my soul, and forget not all his benefits—who forgives all your sins and heals all your diseases.
Psalm 103:2-3
Thanks for the insights re: John Campbell and Calvin Robinson. Much appreciated.

Re: Russell Brand and Jordan Peterson, I'm aware that the former converted, although his present status is apparently debatable (not that it matters); from what I've read, the latter has said good things about the RC's but I've not seen anything about a conversion (not speaking of his family).

Keep fighting the good fight, my friend!

Keeping you in my daily prayers.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #9:
Hi Bob,

Just a quick heads up that another strange ministry has set up shop around the corner from me.
They call themselves 'LoveWorld Church' and is part of Christ Embassy from Lagos in Nigeria. Seems to be a Pentecostal Megachurch over there but they are having a pop up weekend service at an old people's drop in centre in the next street along. A lady with flyers was quite aggressively going door to door to get people to go along. __ thought she seemed friendly but I took one look at the leaflet and said 'I bet it is a cult'. Looking at their videos on YouTube, the Pastor is wearing very expensive looking purple velvet suits whilst sitting on a giant throne and they seem to have a 24hour hotline (for money no doubt) and they encourage people to pray in tongues at all time. They also seem to be pushing anti-pharma conspiracy theory on there as the video I saw said statins are the Antichrist or some such twaddle. They claim to heal people over the internet too.

I don't know why they always have these whacky things near me all the time. Last time they had séances in the same building. Seems the people who run the venue really have an aggressive agenda to push. I happily ignore all of it. I just wish it wasn't so close to me, gives me the creeps.

https://www.youtube.com/live/nLCydO-elXo?si=rKM5HWXecS7mteOA

https://www.youtube.com/live/HefzZFknp3o?si=RHBhbSXhHNfxs29A

In Jesus,
p.s. yikes it looks like there has already been a government investigation of their finances...

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-board-addresses-governance-failings-at-christ-embassy-following-regulators-inquiry

More about them here..

https://newreligiousmovements.org/c/christ-embassy/
Response #9:
There's no end to these sorts of things, is there? There's big new church in Atlanta over here which is making the news. People lining up in the dark for a chance to be able to attend on Sunday morning. Lots of hoopla, but it's another case, from what I've seen, of pretty whitewash (numbers, music, "inspiring preaching", audience carrying on emotionally), with nothing good underneath. You are wise to give all such things a wide-berth. Just like our Lord told us:
"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves."
Matthew 7:15 NKJV
More grist for the mill of your own website, however, in warning others of these dangers, my friend.

Keeping you and yours in my prayers,

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #10:
Thanks Bob,

I have been thinking that after all I did pray for better boundaries. [omitted] I know that believers in the Word lost all for Christ so why should I be any different?

Luke 18:28-30
Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee. And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, Who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting.

So yes even though it has been really hard this test and I see it is a test, I need to trust the Lord with it all and double down what I am supposed to do as part of His plan for me. If they are subtly pressuring me now to either play down my faith or walk away from it, what will they be like in the pressures of the Tribulation? No doubt if they want to join the Beast's religion just to stay in the favour of the world then they are likely to despise me for not doing so as no doubt they will experience scorn from others due to the association. There will be enormous pressure from parents, spouses, children, friends and even so called believers to follow the Antichrist. I need to be brave and stand strong now as they will only get worse than what they already are now. If they fear to be a Christian now when things aren't that bad for believers in this country, what are they going to be like when the whole world despises us and wants us all imprisoned or put to death?

Thanks for all your support Bob through this. I guess I didn't realise that we may lose all before the Tribulation but maybe the Lord wants me confidently walking after losing most things so I can concentrate on whatever work He has for me to do in the Tribulation.

This testing is becoming very hard but maybe it is reflective of the rewards the Lord wants me to attain that glorify Him. Knowing that keeps me going!

In Jesus,
p.s. In other news, in the UK now they are really pushing people to use other forms of identification to pay for things. A lot of shops are getting rid of cash completely and forcing people to use card or their phones to pay for everything. In the future though we won't be able to opt out of these things. Whether this is the framework the enemy will use to push the mark of the Beast and whether we can buy or sell using these scannable devices to read the tattoo on foreheads or hands or whether this is just to desensitize us...Or maybe this is a red herring for people to rush the timeline so they will think all these things are already in motion. Either way, none of this is good and did give me a shudder to think that these things are almost upon us. All of the supermarkets near me now have cameras pointing at your face at the till when you buy anything so the tech is up and ready to go. Whether it will be used for that purpose in the future or not, we will have to see but it is chilling how fast this is all moving but also a reminder that the finish line will also soon be in sight!!

Marana-tha!
Response #10:
Thanks for the background re: your family. I think your plan to set hard boundaries and to stick with them on your terms is the best one, both for you and for keeping appropriate channels open for their future spiritual guidance. Whatever "lessons" you've learned are applicable to your ministry are by now well learned indeed.

Thanks for the details about developments in the UK. It's not to the point here yet of requiring transactions be electronic, but things are definitely moving in that direction. One of my correspondents has written a lot about digitalization and coming changes most of us are probably unaware of. 

No doubt this is just one more example of "pieces in place", and every believer who has eyes in his/her head should take all such things to heart. The Tribulation will get here eventually, and probably sooner rather than later. That fact should give us all pause AND motivate us to become as prepared as possible as soon as possible. Because once it begins, we may have to fight that fight with the spiritual resources we already have in our hearts at that moment. 
Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Amos 8:11 KJV
So there is no guarantee that we'll have time for any "crash course" once it begins. Entering into those seven years spiritually immature and unprepared is about the worst scenario I can imagine.

Keeping you in my daily prayers, my friend!

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #11:
 I realised something today that might be an important insight. You know how I used to be a conspiracy theorist? A huge part of that was the exposure of so called elites and leaders in our world and how depraved they all act behind closed doors. I notice now that the revelation of these things are becoming very mainstream now. In the past I assumed that once all these things become common knowledge that people will be angry and horrified and there will be a kind of a revolution sort of reaction. Another thought came into my head though about another reaction that people may have. This reaction can be called 'if it's good enough for the goose, it's good enough for the gander'. I can imagine a lot of putative law abiding citizens being enraged that the elite are basically doing whatever they want and seemingly getting away with it (from a worldly perspective). I can imagine the average Joe on the street saying '...and to think, all this time I have been paying my taxes.'

It suddenly occured to me that people will suddenly decide to give up being law abiding and orderly altogether and if then a gnostic lie is revealed by the Antichrist, that good is bad and bad is good...Well then the whole world may well give up trying to do what is good and right and basically embrace evil completely. With sin nature, people can often think 'he/she is doing it so why can't I?'

If the whole world adopts this mindset of abandoning their consciences altogether and searing them to become reprobate, it is quite easy to see how the world will become worse than Sodom and Gomorrah. 

It's crazy that I never thought about this before, I always assumed people would be horrified by the evil and rush to the Lord. It never occured to me that being faced with worldwide evil would actually be an enticement and seduction rather than a horror and a repulsion.

Anyway, just thought I would mention this. It also lines up with what our Lord said about not being weary about doing good. We are going to have to become excellent at doing good whilst the world embraces evil and hates us for not doing likewise.

In Jesus,
Response #11:
Reminds me of this verse:
When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, people’s hearts are filled with schemes to do wrong.
Ecclesiastes 8:11 NIV
People have only ever been reasonably well behaved in cultures that were very much family and law and order oriented, with equal application of law regardless of status and swift imposition of penalties for law-breakers. Most of that is by the boards now, so no surprise that the melt down continues. This will get far worse during the Tribulation.
"Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold."
Matthew 24:9-12 NKJV
So the silver lining, if there is one, is that we are getting conditioned to seeing the world and its people for what they really are, and being helped to dis-invest from any notion of peace or paradise on earth. That will only happen when our Lord returns. Marana Tha for that day!
God has ascended amid shouts of joy, the LORD amid the sounding of trumpets. Sing praises to God, sing praises; sing praises to our King, sing praises. For God is the King of all the earth; sing to him a psalm of praise. God reigns over the nations; God is seated on his holy throne. The nobles of the nations assemble as the people of the God of Abraham, for the kings of the earth belong to God; he is greatly exalted.
Psalm 47:6-9 NIV
In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #12:
 Hi Bob,

Yes thanks for this. I agree, I am pretty totally dis-invested at this point. Not trying to be grim about death but I would be ecstatic if the Lord called me home early (like tomorrow!) but rather than sit in the mud and despair at what is around me and happening to me, I want to plough on in faith and try to improve with it, each day so that I can be in that perfect spot that Paul found himself in whereby he was happy, content and fulfilled whether here or with the Lord.

As you have already written, this is the place where we can really prove and improve our faith and to really get to know and appreciate God's power, provision, mercy and love in this terrible wilderness.

I can see a difference in my walk. I know that I am back-heeling things more than I used to be able to do and I guess that is why the tests are becoming much harder and closer together. I am finding it much more like second nature resting in that perfect peace even now while I am going through significant tests back to back and side by side. I have come to expect testing now and although I am not quite at the point of welcoming it, I am a lot more professional minded about it and no longer have a 'why me' attitude as much. I now see suffering as part of the job description of being a Christian and I have felt my faith grow a lot stronger than before.

Seeing as I have only had less than a decade in the faith, no doubt I had to grow up pretty quickly. Looking back I do feel I took longer to grow at the beginning than I should have done but I do seem to be significantly stronger and wiser when I consider where I was as a baby believer.

I feel that if I push forward on all fronts (to double down in all areas of my walk) and to take pains to have that joy in the Lord and really trust Him with everything and only fear Him, then this will strengthen my grounding in faith that will see me through the Tribulation.

I have a strong inkling that I am called to go through the Tribulation though I don't know what my particular path through it will be. As my testing has become significantly difficult of late, I have a further inkling that I may be called for significant testing in the Tribulation too. I realise now that everything I am going through is very purposeful and for my own good even if it does sting as all 'light afflictions' do. If I give a fair appraisal of all that I have been through so far, I can say a definite 'yes' that the Lord has been with me through every moment of it and I need not have panicked or got angry or fearful of any of it at all. He has always been more than capable and willing to carry me through all.

I now feel that I really trust the Lord no matter what and that I needn't be afraid of anything as long as I am in a right relationship with Him (being obedient, walking close to Him and confessing my sins immediately.) I have been trying to do so more and more as well as to keep up my study. I know that the major part that is lacking is a more assured and strident approach to ministry and not to be a perfectionist about it. I am hoping this won't be long now in the doing also.

Thanks for all the support, encouragement and prayers over the years my friend!
Please print this one as I hope it will be an encouragement to my brethren in Christ!

In Jesus,
Response #12:
Your experience is reminiscent of that of many believers – believers who are determined to struggle FORWARD, that is. So I guess it's also atypical here in Laodicea. But it's a very encouraging testimony, my friend!

Re: "I would be ecstatic if the Lord called me home early" Amen! It reminds me of this verse:
The righteous perish, and no one takes it to heart; the devout are taken away, and no one understands that the righteous are taken away to be spared from evil. Those who walk uprightly enter into peace; they find rest as they lie in death.
Isaiah 57:1-2 NIV
Blessedly, however, this is not our decision. And the Lord has good reasons to leave us here too, even though as Paul says, departing and being with Jesus is "better by far" (Phil.1:23):
. . . but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.
Philippians 1:24 NIV
As long as the Lord has something for us to do down here, our job is keep carrying our crosses and following Him. That is the way to a good reward and a "well done!" from Him on that great day to come.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #13:
Hello Dr. Luginbill,

First, some good news that __'s eye is healing well, and should be within the next month. I thank the LORD for His kindness.

Second, I am somewhat confused on the following bible reference and its content: The following is what you write in the Eschatology teaching that I am currently studying. F. The Jewish Coup Attempt and the Apparent Assassination and Resuscitation of Antichrist

Then he will be stricken [as if dead], but will revive. Therefore he will be enraged at the holy covenant, so that on his return [to Israel from the far south] he will take action [against it] (i.e., eliminating Moses and Elijah and ending the sacrifices).
Daniel 11:30b

I don't find this in the scripture, but this is the NASB interpretation:

30 For ships of [a]Kittim will come against him; therefore he will withdraw in fear and will return and curse the holy covenant and take action; so he will come back and pay attention to those who abandon the holy covenant.

I am sort of confused, so can you please help me to understand the differences between what you write and what is in the Bible. I know there is a reason, and maybe you have interpreted what this verse really means.

Help, I have fallen and I can't get up. Laugh.

Your friend,
Response #13:
Great news about __! Please say hello for me.

The Hebrew of Daniel is perhaps the most difficult in the Old Testament to correctly interpret and translate, both on account of the material Daniel is given to write and also because of his very spare style (akin to Aristotle in the Greek, I would say).

Differences between NASB20 (note: also different from NASB95 in this passage by a lot) and my translation of Daniel 11:30:

1) "therefore he will withdraw in fear" vs. my "Then he will be stricken": Here is the explanation from CT 3B:
The key word in the half verse above is the Hebrew verb form nich'ah (נכאה). While there exists a variety of opinions among lexicographers and commentators about this difficult form, what we have here is most likely the niphal (i.e., passive) perfect of the verb cha'ah (כאה), meaning to strike, smite or scourge (hence the translation, "he will be stricken").(61)[The future sense is derived here as it frequently is in Biblical Hebrew from the waw which precedes in the future sequence begun in verse 29 (yashubh ubha', ישוב ובא)] Time and space do not here permit a detailed explication of נכאה. It must suffice to remark that in his Hebrew lexicon, Gesenius likewise derived this form from כאה, and that he and other commentators (notably O. Zöckler and T. Lewis in the Lange series) also find the niphal of this verb at Job 30:8 in the form נכאים (i.e., "driven/scourged from the land"; Gesenius understands the dagesh forte as euphonic). Translations which take this verb as being used here in a strictly emotional sense (i.e., understanding it to mean that antichrist will be "disheartened" but not physically injured) do so without any firm evidence. The two passages often adduced as parallels, namely, Psalm 109:16 and Ezekiel 13:22, both contain the delimiting word "heart" which specifies the place affected or "stricken", and thus move the application of the blow from the physical to the emotional realm. No similar delimiting word is to be found in Daniel 11:30. Therefore, given that the meaning of the near identical root נכה likewise means literally to strike or smite, and given the well-known Hebrew phenomenon of related roots often bearing identical meanings, the preponderance of evidence points in the direction of antichrist being stricken in a quite literal sense, as opposed to suffering a mere psychological setback.(62) [cf. the Vulgate's rendering: percutietur (i.e., the future passive of "strike"; cf. "percussion"]
2) "therefore he will withdraw in fear" vs. my "but will revive": NASB wrongly conflates the two verbs; "in fear" is actually "will be stricken", a verb, not an adverb. "Will withdraw" is the generic verb shubh which can mean return in all manner of ways; here it means "recover", i.e., return to his former state. That is to say, it is personal and physical here, not geographical. NASB has gotten this wrong because it misunderstands the meaning of the other verb (see answer #1 above). That is indefensible because in the context antichrist is already in Israel, so why would he need to geographically return to the place he already is?

3) "curse" vs. my "be enraged"; the verb za'am always means to be angry or enraged at something; it never means "to curse".

I think the other differences are not substantive (but I'm happy to address anything else you want). If I had to guess, I'd say that this is a case of the translator (whoever it was) not understanding what he was translating and attempting to "make sense" of some difficult Hebrew by massaging it into something he felt was understandable. It may be that, but it is also wrong. I know Greek pretty well, but if I were asked to translate a passage from a mathematics text, I'm sure I'd make a lot of mistakes because I'm not well versed in math. Similarly, unless someone has already figured out the basic chronology of events during the Tribulation, from this and many other passages (from Genesis to Revelation), the chances of understanding what the Hebrew actually means here are low. 

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #14:
Hello Dr. Luginbill,

Item number 1. I have a book with the title shown above and have been reading the comments concerning the comments made by the author about God, and am interested in your opinion about them. Here are the comments, by A.W. Tozer.
When the Scripture states that man was made in the image of God, we dare not add to that statement, an idea from out own head, and make it mean “in the exact image.” To do so, is to make man a replica of God, and that is to lose the unicity of God and end with no God at all. It is to break down the wall, infinitely high, that separates creature and Creator as alike in essential being is to rob God of most of His attributes and reduce Him to the status of a creature. It is, for instance, to rob Him of His infinitude: there cannot be two absolutely free beings in the universe, for sooner or later two completely free wills must collide. These attributes, to mention no more, require that there be but one to whom they belong. These attributes, to mention no more, require that there be but one to whom they belong. When we try to imagine what God is like, we must of necessity use that-which-is-not- God as the raw material for our minds to work on; hence whatever we visualize God to be, He is not, for we have constructed our image out of that which He has made and what He has made is not God. If we insist upon trying to imagine Him, we end with an idol, made not with hands but with thoughts; and an idol of the mind is as offensive to God as an idol of the hand.
I had another look at your study about "The image and likeness of God, so that got me interested in what you wrote in this study. I would like to have your opinion of the writer who penned the comments above to see if he is legit and on track with his thoughts. I became interested in the book he wrote because of one so-called Minister's which he made on one of his so-called sermons. He claimed that he was equal with God and the reason he gave was that he was made in the Image of God. He is totally out of his mind who is a Charismatic and if you listened to and saw him and the things he says and does, you would be very upset by what he is teaching and says it is the Word of God.

Item Number 2. I am also wanting to ask you if I am on the right track in what I understand from Daniel Chapter 11, verse 45, and Daniel Chapter 12, Verse 1. In Daniel 11:Verse 45, my understanding is the person that is referenced here, refers to is the antichrist who has come to his end, as well as the Tribulation has ended.

In Daniel 12: Verse 1-2. In verse 1, we read, "Now, at that time[that is, the end of the antichrist referenced above in Daniel 11]. And there will be a "time of distress"[that is the battle of Armaggedon ??] . This distress will continue until the antichrist comes to his end in Daniel 11:12, and the battle of Armaggedon is finished, and "at that time" mentioned in Daniel 48:45.

All those who are believers who are still alive will be rescued, and those who have died, will be raised .

Question: Why is Daniel told to seal up the book until the end of time?

I cherish your reply, to see if I am on the right track.

Blessings to you,

P.S. Still studying Eschatology, which is fabulous.

Your friend, 
Response #14:
I have a lot of issues with the charismatics as you probably know.

In terms of Tozer's comments, they are fine as far as they go. I likewise do not agree with representing (let alone imagining) "what God looks like". I don't even like to look at or have anything to do with popular representations of our Savior (they can't be accurate, after all, since no one living has seen Him). But in terms of the substance, Tozer's take is not actually what "image and likeness" refers to in the Bible as you also know from reading BB 3A. Those are spiritual terms referring to free will (in His image) and plurality (according to His likeness), with the prepositions expressing greater and lesser analogousness respectively. That is, we all are individuals with choice (image); there are many of us who share that image of God but the Trinity is One and uniquely so in a way that mankind obviously is not (so "likeness" only).

In terms of Daniel, yes, Daniel 11:45 is referencing antichrist. In fact, starting with verse 21, where the person is Antiochus Ephiphanes, we also have direct application to antichrist (because Antiochus is a type of antichrist, meaning that we are to take these statements as also applying to him; see the link).

As to the "time of distress", yes, it is the Great Tribulation, that is, the second half of the seven years which ends in the battle of Armageddon.

As to being "sealed up" in Daniel 12:4, this phrasing occurs multiple times in Daniel (also Dan.8:26b; 9:24; 12:9), always with the same essential meaning: these were prophecies that would not be fully understandable until after the coming of the Holy Spirit and the full revelation of the Word of God in the completion of the entire Bible. Similarly . . .
Concerning this salvation, the prophets, who spoke of the grace that was to come to you, searched intently and with the greatest care, trying to find out the time and circumstances to which the Spirit of Christ in them was pointing when he predicted the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you, when they spoke of the things that have now been told you by those who have preached the gospel to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven. Even angels long to look into these things.
1st Peter 1:10-12 NIV
In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #15:
Thanks Dr. for your reply. I too have many issues also with the Charismatics and Pentecostals, have been one of the later for many years.

Your friend,
Response #15:
My pleasure.

It would take a long confession to enumerate all of the false trails I went down earlier in my journey. The main thing is that we're on the right track now!

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #16:
Hi Dr L,

How are you doing?

So, I am not involved or aware of the details. But on my social media (I only have 1-x/twitter) in the periphery apparently a famous gay conservative had videos of him doing what everyone apparently agrees is perverted behavior released publicly, and I see many conservative trying to defend (I am sure you can guess the reasoning, free speech, and other such things) and others not. And I just know that when I was younger I was not for it and at one point I accidentally showed it and the people went off a little on me. But mostly I fly under the radar so that stuff doesn't hit me so much. I have noticed there has been a strong push to make conservatives welcoming of gay people (again, in the periphery because not only am I on the margins, but I am a book person, so little indoctrination via shows (hint)). And I never accepted it. Anyway now some apparently accepted it and have found themselves no longer in a position of not accepting it, but having to defend one whose actions, again, everybody seems to say is perverted (and just how bad does it have to be considering what is acceptable now for it to be considered so...). But as I was saying, they accepted the lie that the Bible was wrong, and that THEY (the secular people) knew better than God, and they should ignore God, and fast forward and no they are yoked in a kind of fraternityship and many find themselves defending that kind of thing I described, and the secularlists are not around (so that it is just of their own selves). 

We really have to be careful letting other people or culture influence us. There is a Catholic saying I actually agree with, married to the present age widow in the next. Just scary to buy into the secularist pressure of defining good the way they (the secularists) say instead of God's, and waking up and your in this insane situation.

Please be careful Dr L, because that cultural and social pressure is very effective,

(The reading ancient stuff instead of consuming current culture helps a LOT for me).

Hope you are well,
PS: Apparently he is not conservative (but has said some things conservatives like), and so I am even more at a loss as to the defense from some.
Response #16:
Blessedly, believers who are putting the Lord and His Word of truth first don't have to worry about what others in the culture are doing. After all, the New Testament was written, and the Church expanded greatly under the apostles, within a culture that was completely pagan, godless and even more immoral than ours is today (not to mention irredeemably antagonistic to the Church). We today may experience some pressure to adapt if we begin involving ourselves in questionable activities, e.g., politics, but we're not being crucified or stoned to death for holding biblical opinions (not yet, anyway).

We know what is right and what is wrong. We don't need to judge others in the culture. Are unbelievers doing things that are immoral? No big surprise. Few people are going to begin living sanctified lives without first turning to the Lord and His truth. As believers, what we don't want is to set ourselves the task of "reforming" people. We want all to be saved, and we are happy to share the truth with those willing to put their faith in Jesus Christ. No one is saved - - and no believer gets to experiential sanctification – from the outside in. Those changes always have to come from the heart. So we save our intolerance for believers who are not acting as they should be . . . and let the world do what the world always does.
I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person. For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.
1st Corinthians 5:9-13 NKJV
In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #17:
Hi Dr L,

Sorry I meant to say that some of these conservatives are putative Christians, and that is why I think the secularists did a good job portraying it as loving to go their way, and it is a bit of a shock to see the very far position some of them are in and don't even realize. But yes staying away from cultural consumption is the way. And being less socially involved with the world. I hate seeing how I let others influence me in a bad way sometimes. It doesn't even make sense because it is arbitrary (why listen to the people who happen to be in front of me right now and will be gone in a second). But keeping the Lord as the focus is the key. The longer I live more it does feel like a path like in Pilgrim's Progress and there are all of these things trying to take you off and you will end up who knows where.

Take care of yourself,
Response #17:
Re: "keeping the Lord as the focus is the key", Amen! You'll never go wrong with that approach (and it is biblical; see the link).

We don't have to be recluses. There's nothing wrong with watching the news or mixing with other people, as long as they are not believers who are defaming the Lord by their actions (1Cor.5:9-13). It's just important to listen to the Spirit and to the truth we've learned and believed when we do. If we do, it's easy for mature believers to filter out the chaff from the wheat (and there's little enough of the latter out there these days) – and to stay away from people and places that are spiritually dangerous.
Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.”
1st Corinthians 15:33 NIV
Keeping you in my prayers, my friend.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #18:
I'm continuing to focus my time, energy and thoughts on what's most important - the Lord and what He wants me to do. I really want to ramp it up though - regardless of any distractions.
Response #18:
Amen!
Question #19:
Hello Dr. Luginbill. Thanks for reaching out to me. I really appreciate it. Things are going well here in Wyoming. We are having beautiful Spring rains. It is quite refreshing compared to the wildfires of last summer very close to me. I’ve been keeping up with Curtis Omo’s videos and I’ll check out Hebrews. It seems like we are at least going in the right direction in the country. But my gut tells me it’s a calm before the storm. Regardless we need Jesus back soon. Take care my friend. 
Response #19:
Thanks for the update.

Re: "we need Jesus back soon" – Amen! But we do need to "go through that storm" before our blessed hope comes to pass. God helping us, He will bring us through no matter what betides. But being spiritually prepared will be beyond helpful if an when we have to go through it.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #20:
Good morning!
How are you doing? Will you be taking any breaks this summer? I hope so!

We are doing well and are looking to make some decisions in the days ahead—should we move? If so, where, and when? My health has been improving, and I am certain it’s largely thanks to pool season. Pool therapy works wonders, and I am so thankful.

Quick question: I noticed in this week’s posting that you encourage people not to use social media to share biblical truths (casting pearls before swine). You’ve also expressed this to me before, yet I have used social platforms for that purpose, and many so called “friends” know me through the visible and influential roles I’ve held prior in church and para church organizations. Would you say it’s a matter of knowing one’s audience when using these platforms, or is it best to find another path for sharing truth? I don’t know of any physical church that provides teaching at the level you do—if at all—and I doubt any church I entered would ever allow me to speak (ministry of any kind). 

Also—another, unrelated question: The Bible says that one third of true believers will apostatize, and we know that the 144,000 will have an effective, fruitful ministry among Jews worldwide, but what about Gentiles? Does Scripture mention evangelism on any scale? (I know your charts show worldwide evangelism.) Is it safe to assume that many will turn to God during the judgments and through the worldwide witness of Moses and Elijah? Can we expect any influx into the kingdom during that time at all? It’s hard to imagine, since so many true believers will fall away. How much harder will it be for someone who has never embraced the truth to do so then? (always hopeful for loved ones)

Thoughts? And thank you!

In Jesus' name,
p.s., Forgot to mention, I have pointed to ichthys may times and posted your teachings as well. I will refrain going forward if it places you in harms way as a target. Please advise.
Response #20:
Good to hear from you as always, my friend.

I'm very happy to hear that your health is improving. I'm keeping that in my daily prayers. Mine is doing OK as well. The joints aren't what they used to be at 25 (no surprise there), but I've been able to get back into jogging farther this summer, and hope to crawl my way back to where I was a few years ago anyway. So far so good (took it a little lighter this weekend, however). I'll add the "move / no move" to my prayer list for you: keep me in the loop).

To take your questions in reverse, the ministry of Moses and Elijah and the 144,000 is specifically directed to unbelieving Jews, not gentiles. Will gentiles get some of the benefit? Scripture doesn't say but it seems likely. Will believers entering the Tribulation be given opportunities for evangelism therein that didn't exist before? One would think so. On the other hand, we don't see anything in scripture about any response. I was very much struck by the lack of response that resulted from Covid and the lockdowns et al. I thought this would get some people's attention and turn them to the truth (whether unbelievers or lukewarm believers), but Ichthys saw a noticeable drop off and I saw no indication of any positive response anywhere. But of course it's all about specific cases. We all have people we care about who are showing no indication of ever changing course. It's not impossible or wrong to hope that the events of the Tribulation might shake them up enough to reconsider. I'm sure that will be the case for some. 

As to use of social media, I'm pretty sure I never told anyone NOT to use it. I have expressed concern about the dangers of it, especially for the immature. Business is another matter. Advertising is a necessary part of any business as is networking. There is nothing fundamentally wrong with any of these platforms as I can see. Problems arise from unwise believers succumbing to the various temptations these services lob up. And, after all, Ichthys would not exist without the internet! And the internet has all of the problems any of these platforms have. So God can use them for good as well as the evil one using them for ill. 

I am grateful for any "social media evangelism" you've done for Ichthys. Nothing in this world is Simon-pure. These are matters of application, and in terms of what you ask I can see no reason why your conscience should be troubled by furthering your business in this way. My concern is mainly for younger believers (age-wise and in terms of spiritual maturity) would can fall into the traps. They need at least to know that those traps are out there and "have a care".

In Jesus,

Bob L.
p.s., don't worry about "making Ichthys a target"; it's already "out there" for anyone to see (and the Lord has always protected me and it).
http://ichthys.com/