http://ichthys.com/ 
Eschatology Issues CXI

Question #1:
Bob,

I'm truly counting it all joy now.

I bounced back from that upset and because I met it with love and forgiveness rather than the anger I felt, I seem to be going from strength to strength. I am realising the power of God who is within me. I am able to wake up calm and stay calm and patient for most of the day. 

I used to wake up fearful (about the Tribulation) but now I wake up with clarity of mind, determination and a zeal for reward as I know what is coming AFTER the Tribulation will be so incredibly wonderful that it will all pale in comparison, even our fears and tribulation.
So I am not looking at the Tribulation anymore (the waves lapping about my feet) but the Millennial Kingdom and the return of our King of Kings BEYOND (Jesus walking on the water.)

Amen!

In Him,
Response #1:
I rejoice to hear of your spiritual victories, my friend! Spiritual growth always gives us better "balance". Here in this world, we are still getting "hit" after we have grown – actually more so – but we learn to roll with those punches and continue on forward in peace, even when the joy comes a little more grudgingly (link). That joy always comes back, if we train ourselves to focus on the beloved truths we have learned – as you are doing here. And this is all necessary training for what it coming soon.
“These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
John 16:33 NKJV
In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #2:
Hi Bob,

I believe I remember you saying we had an obligation to support our country. I'm aware that the Lord establishes country boundaries but... Does it mean support your neighbors or your government?

Can you point me to the scripture that teaches that?

Thanks.

In our Lord,
Response #2:
As to "obligation to support our country", it depends what one means by "support" or "serve" (in the email subject line). Here is one of the main passages that spells out our Christian obligations:
Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience’ sake. For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor.
Romans 13:1-7 NKJV
One could do all of the above and not, for example, have anything to do with politics. What I get from the above and similar passages (e.g., Tit.3:1; 1Pet.2:13-17), is that Christians are charged with being law-abiding, whether we like the laws or not. And the only exception is when we are being commanded to do things that violate God's commands to us, whether forcing us to do something we are not to do (like taking the mark of the beast) or forbidding us to do things we are supposed to do (as in Daniel being forbidden to pray).

Hope you are doing well, my friend. I keep you in my daily prayers.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #3:
Hi Bob,

In English, as I understand it, submit, support and serve mean three different things. (English is changing, so I'm not sure of current understanding.) Submit, e.g., could mean fully supporting a government law that's wrong (the LGBTXYZ business, e.g.,) or refusing and submitting to the consequences. (Paul was a good example.) What did the original mean?

Judging from your choice of NKJV, can I understand submit as the best translation? Did it mean the same thing then as it does today?

My understanding of the scripture you cited is much the same as yours. I do pay my property taxes and I definitely don't like it. The honor part is probably the most difficult. I probably have misremembered what you wrote earlier.

I'm doing reasonably well, thank you, and thank you for your prayers, You and yours are in mine as well.

In our Lord,
Response #3:
At Romans 13:1, KJV, NKJV and NIV all say "be subject to" authority, not submit. This is a good translation for hypotasso which means, literally, to fall into ranks under someone else' authority ("tactics" comes from the base root). "Submit" is a possible translation but I don't like it because the connotations are not right. For example, this verb is used of wives vis-à-vis husbands, and knuckleheads will get the impression from "submit" that their wives should be cowering robots – and that is clearly not the case. The verb indicates to me reasonable responsiveness to the authority in question, giving said authority the response to which it is entitled. That is what the rest of the passage goes on to say as well. So in the military, command me to attack that hill and I will do it. Command me to wipe out the civilians in that village and I will not (illegal order). As a citizen in this country, order me to pay taxes and I will do it. Order me to vote and you have gone too far because you don't have that authority. In the example, I suppose that could change. Some countries which are supposedly democracies DO have compulsory voting. So I would do it if it were required, even if I didn't like it, because I don't find anything anti-God about it, even if I find it repulsive (did anyone mention taxes?). But order me to take a mark on my head that proclaims allegiance to Satan and I'd rather die – and that we may have to do.

In terms of honor, I think that if we keep our true thoughts to ourselves about certain officials instead of publicly slandering them, we are probably in the sweet spot there. 

Hope you are getting on well, my friend. Keeping you in my prayers.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #4:
Hi Bob,

Thank you for confirming and strengthening my beliefs. I guess I didn't have this one too bolixed. I try my best to avoid slandering our government workers. For the most part, I think I'm reasonably successful, but Bob, sometimes, it's difficult.

As it turns out, I know a couple who have adopted the "submit" attitude. Peter clearly refutes that approach but people seem to select only what they want and ignore the rest. (I have been guilty of that myself.) I think I mentioned them before.

The petard on which reasonable responsiveness is hoisted is our concept of reasonableness. To my mind, the US Constitution is the arbiter of civilly "reasonable," at least here, but it seems no one else agrees.

Thanks for the clarification, your prayers and support.

BTW -- the mesquites are leafing out so winter is officially over!

In Jesus Christ,
Response #4:
"sometimes, it's difficult" - Amen to that!

Yes, people can rationalize anything, both in taking scripture too far and also not taking it far enough. The Spirit informs the consciences of mature believers who have given Him something to work with by learning and believing the truth.
Solid [spiritual] food is for the [spiritually] mature, those who by [diligent] practice have trained their [moral] perceptive faculties to [properly] distinguish between good and evil (i.e., in careful application of the truth through the Spirit).
Hebrews 5:14
We're in full spring mode here as well, though it's been somewhat cold and rainy. Typical Louisville spring. Daffodils in March yield to tulips in April. 

Looking forward to the summer!

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #5:
Bob,

Yes, your email was found in the junk folder.

Some of those who were with me from the beginning of this ministry for years have dropped off never to be heard of again. Does not surprise me anymore. You probably know who some are. Anyway, I think I am doing some of my best work I have ever done also. The numbers slightly increased with Revelation but I do not worry about unless it was to go way way down. I am not on social media unless you call YouTube is one but that is just for posting not discussion. 

[omitted] 

If three out of five of our seminary buds are in Texas – What are you waiting for? But you know, at the rate the illegal immigrants are coming in, I do not know how much longer our freedom will last. Anyway, it is another reason to keep our eyes on prize. If they threw me in the klink for preaching the truth, will you visit and bring cookies. 

Bob, thank you so much for remaining a loyal friend. 

The Lord is good. 

Your old friend,
Response #5:
I've mentioned before that the Ichthys traffic has dropped off significantly. Part of that I imagine has to do with the fact that in contrast to 25 years ago when I started the site nowadays every Tom, Dick and Harry is a "Bible teacher" with his/her own website. And there is so much out there in cyberspace now that the haystack has gotten much bigger. Add to that the fact that the younger generations aren't into email very much and inhabit Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat and Tik-tok more than the web per se searching for anything through Google (which is how most have found Ichthys). Also, I was thinking about it the other day and I don't think very many who were regulars at the site ten years ago still have anything to do with it – at least not to my knowledge. Finally, even a lot of regulars are not being regular about reading the site. As in your case, we may put a lot of content out there, but there's no guarantee that folks will actually avail themselves of it. I imagine that Col. Thieme had that problem too. I know Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel certainly did (not that the comparison is anything but very loose). I'm wondering if interest will peak a bit once the Tribulation begins, but seeing as how things have already gotten much worse and much more difficult in the world in the last few years and yet the trend in seeking the Lord seems to have gone in the wrong direction, I'm not betting the family farm on it. Guess we'll know soon enough.

Louisville, though far from perfect (shooting of three with one dead on the adjoining street the other night) seems to be just far enough from everything "important" not to be too terribly bad: out of control immigration and hurricanes in the south, extreme nuttiness in all the other cardinal directions. Sometimes being a backwater is not all bad.

If they throw you in the clink, I'll not only send you cookies – I'll bake Bible verses into them. Which version do you prefer?

Sort of fitting that my last email went into junk . . . but I'm sure you "Ace Hardware rewards" from some scammer in the third world went right through.

Hang in there, 'ol pard!

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #6:
Bob, 

[omitted]

To get on a subject, I really do not say much to others. But you probably agree on this. I am taking a course on citizenship from Victor David Hanson through Hillsdale college. It is about seven 30 minute lectures. He discusses where citizen originated, how it developed in the U.S and what it means. It probably peaked in the late fifties and then started to decline in many ways beginning in the early 60s (back when you had that long hair). Anyway, though I still have a couple of lectures left, from every point that makes a people and nation strong, it is now lost or in the process, leaving one with no other conclusion than this country is toast. I know that is not a shocker but how it happened and blindsided so many is amazing. I also have watched many in our country mirror many of the things that both the Nazi's and the Bolsheviks did to gain control of a people and establish a dictator. I understand that that probably means a good set up for the beast and continue to alert my listeners as I see you do. 

I agree with you that one of the reasons, traffic on our sites has grown little if not shrunk is because of so many other choices now and if you remember I had said that covid brought a lot of this on when people started staying home and searching on line. But I must say, I still have not found or had it been brought to my attention the level of quality work we are doing but I expect there are some – somewhere. 

A couple of other things. PayPal, my main source of online giving has gone nuts on their policies and the governments restrictions add to the problem. I have been trying to find a viable replacement but I have not found any. I am not sure why YouTube still keeps me online unless they have not found patience to listen (or maybe I bored them to death) or that Lord is blinding them – so to speak. Anyway, I do not expect things to change much but gradually get worse, no matter how the mid-terms go. I will be the first to say, God is sovereign. 

Not such a short reply but I had a lot of good stuff to say. 

Glory to the One who sits on the throne!

Your old seminary and Marine buddy-- 

P.S. I wonder if the Silver Spur is still around.
Response #6:
I got the J&J single shot and am glad I didn't get the double-whammy. I was feeling the negative effects for about three months and then was still somewhat off for another three.  

On the national issue, I would despair . . . if I didn't have a more strategic perspective. Things are on the cusp of getting much worse once the Tribulation begins (2Thes.2:3-12, after all). So the absolutely horrific things that are happening – and being said and taught today – are to me more annoying than frightening. I don't think there's any saving Babylon-to-be. It is somewhat distressing to be riding this ship down, but the Lord will work it out for us, one way or another. I'm a bit amazed that we are both still "on the air" after hearing of the likes of that guy in Tennessee whose home got raided by the FBI this week and he got charged with domestic terrorism (11 years if convicted) for singing hymns outside an abortion clinic a year and a half ago. All the more reason to maintain a godly "stealth silhouette" when it comes to all things political. I did hear something about PayPal – but I've never liked them (with cause) so I wasn't too surprised. Maybe you should start taking "crypto" (LOL). I'm still with Warren Buffet on that one: "rat poison".

The real problem, of course, IS the people. It's hard for us oldsters to be current in our perspective about the current demography. Over half of the population is less than half of our age. Things were bad enough – in terms of the intrusion of evil into the mainstream – back in the 60's (I had a crew cut most of that time, thanks very much). But most of my students were born after 9/11, and any genuine history they have learned came from personal reading. In other words, it's easy for us to fail to realize that most of the people living in this country today have never even heard "the other side", and so are extremely susceptible – in the absence of a good moral climate to set the tone (just the opposite) – to all the winds and waves of deception from the evil one. Give it a few more years, a bit more "prepping the battlefield", and it won't surprise me that the beast will have such an easy time of it. He will find a way to appeal to the left and right alike. I was going to say "the loonies on the left and right alike", but there are not many left in sanity column. We believers, of course, are in a column all of our own, but as you know very well, most are lukewarm – and seem to be cooling off rather than heating up. 

So what we can we do? Just what we are doing – all the way to the bitter end.

The one thing I remember about CA is that whenever I went off to Michigan or Florida to visit family for a couple of weeks, things had changed noticeably when I got back to CA in just that short time. There was a place down in Solana Beach where I used to go when stationed at Pendleton. It was set up like a British pub with those great over-sized high-back chairs, a huge wheel of cheese, a dart board, and a great Beef Wellington. I got curious a few years back but there's not even a trace of it left on the internet, let alone it still being in situ. As my dear departed mom used to say, "Ol' man Yustabe is long dead".

Your pal in Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #7:
Bob, 

I did just tell you about some of analysis of the country's situation from a different perspective. No, I do not think things will get any better simply because the people are not. I continue to emphasize the words and works of our Lord but it seems that we agree that the trend continues towards the antichrist. One of the reasons I think that is because the evil trends are back by a globalist movement/socialism. People seem to always talk about us being on the verge of a revival. I have heard that all my adulthood like the pre-trib. rapture. I do not see either one. 

I did make the announcement that I will soon drop PayPal and am transitioning to CashApp which my children have had for some time (but I did not know it) and have no problems with it. Anyway, it makes me nervous at this point hoping I do not have major issues and have to work through them because most of my livelihood comes from donations. Of course, the LORD is in control but I still do not like it. 

The solution is so simple for believers. Quit thinking that short sermons and sharing in so called Bible studies are going to grow you spiritually and get serious about the word of God and change your lifestyle to do so. On the one hand, the Christian way is hard but on the other hand, God has given us all we need to serve and produce for him and grow through these difficult times. 

If you post anything, include the genius analysis on the previous email but not the wise-cracks and correct the spelling. By the way, do you remember the Silver Spur in La Habra or are you just ignoring my question? 

Take care my co-worker in Christ. To God be the glory!
Response #7:
On revivals, given what that has meant in evangelicaldom over the years, maybe the lack of one is just as well. Genuine interest in the truth is what we are really interested in.

No doubt about the devil being behind all these disturbing trends. But he is also finding much more fertile ground than in the past – and that is even more disturbing (to me, at least).

On PayPal, did you see the postings in the "Bee" on that? Maybe a little too close to truth to be funny.

I remember that people there thought we were cops because of our haircuts . . . and that there was a serious lack of Irish ditties.

You bud in Jesus,

Bob L.
p.s., your genius analysis is exactly WHY I'd be posting it.
Question #8:
Bob,

Please look after yourself... These radical trans activists have been planning a 'day of vengeance' on 1st April and have posted photos of themselves on social media toting guns. It may or not go ahead as there is mixed messages on social media and now I am trying to not look at any of it as it is really disturbing and making me feel depressed as it is making me 'doomscroll' again which was a habit that I had kicked from my old conspiracy days...

This planned event is at Scotus but it may trigger other events in other places as mass publicised 'protests' often do. Whether it goes ahead or not, please be careful.

I am going to take a break from news and social media for a while as it is mind numbingly bleak to keep seeing it all.

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Matt 6:22-23
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

In Jesus,
p.s. I feel that Satan is really trying hard to push us and goad us.. I went out today and the first thing I saw was a huge Transgender flag flying outside the Town Hall at the end of my street. I had an immediate visceral reaction to it as though I had been punched (as I supposed I had been).

At the very least it is tone deaf to have that up given what has happened at Nashville but I guess it is just Satan and his human cronies trying their hardest to get all our combined dander up! I hate to admit that it is working. 

They often say that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. I see how that flag (just like the 'Pride' one) can either inspire fear, hate, mockery or pride depending on who looks upon it, rather like the effect the swastika had on a whole country, though these flags have gone global.

I guess the flinching I felt seeing it on the flagpole was in reaction to seeing people online photographing themselves with this flag whilst toting assault rifles. Someone told me that no matter how strange the reaction I have to a given sign or signifier, that reaction was the intended one.

In the Bible though I read this..

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

I can't wait to go home Bob.

In Jesus,
Response #8:
I think that was today. No notice of anything untoward on our campus (campuses tend to be fawningly supportive of all such things so they are not exactly "targets of vengeance" from this sort of source).

Re: "Satan and his human cronies trying their hardest to get all our combined dander up", I'm sure you are right about that. Not only does it help identify the targets, but it also gets advancing Christians to abandon the peace they should be experiencing in Jesus Christ – and also leave off on the spiritual advance they may have been engaged in to focus on this nonsense instead. And that is the LAST thing we should be doing with the Tribulation so close now. Instead we should be using every spare moment to prepare.

Great verses!

Hope you are close to being back to 100% my friend!

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #9:
Thanks Bob, you're welcome.

Recovery from COVID is slow but I am getting there.

I think there are two days, an official 'peaceful' one on the 31st as a day of 'recognition' and another day on the 1st April as the unofficial day of 'vengeance'. I guess there is meant to be a distinction between the two in that the extreme faction is done with just wanting tolerance but want dominance and revenge instead.

Hopefully nothing will come of it but still please be careful.

You are definitely right. I had a horrific nightmare last night and they have been very rare for me since becoming a believer. Before being saved I used to wake people up as I would scream in my sleep but that has all gone. I felt afraid and a bit depressed yesterday and then had my first nightmare in many years so I think that 'doomscrolling' is having a very bad effect on me so I must immediately knock it on the head.
I have to contend with Satan's lies for my ministry but I will completely limit myself to only ministry work balanced with a lot of scripture. I need to limit what I expose myself to and make sure that what I am looking at is really what the Lord wants me to look at.

I know now that the Lord doesn't want me to look at this Trans thing as it is not my ministry and so should not be my concern so I need to stay completely away. I am not ignorant of this satanic device but I don't need to dig into it any further as it is really distressing me.

p.s. I hope you are well and having a blessed Sunday. I have bounced back and the Lord has lifted my depression overnight! The Lord be praised! Your teaching on Hebrews has been a great blessing for me today, thank you!

I saw something else today that gave me pause about that theory of ecumenism as an opposing force under the enemy against the obvious lawlessness in society. I was looking up some old hymns on YouTube and there was an advert about 'helping Syria during Ramadan'. It's sponsor was a secular English company giving to a Islamic charity which protected Muslim interests. I have also noticed many purportedly 'Christian' channels have Islamic adverts in the middle of them all the time. The charity I just mentioned had an appeal to 'plant an olive tree in Palestine'. Is this promoting anti-Israel hostilities in the name of Ramadan, a Muslim festival?

It makes me wonder if there will be a further split within Judaism that will condemn Israel and will join other religions in this ecumenical movement under Mahdi? We will have to wait and see... It makes me wonder as I see that liberal Jews support things such as LGBTQ so it makes me wonder about the Orthodox Jews and who they will support? Have you done much research on Noahidism? It might be a good thing to alert your ministry about it as it may be the bridging device to either join us under the Antichrist or the Mahdi (if you haven't done already.)

Thank you for all your prayers my friend.

Keeping you in mine.

In Jesus,
Response #9:
Nothing much transpired here. I think those forces are largely lying low after what happened in Tennessee (they are deliberately refusing to release the manifesto of the man-pretending-to-be-a-woman who murdered those children). There was a bus caravan making the rounds – through residential neighborhoods – with a blaring horn loud enough to wake the dead to announce their "presence" (no danger since there were police cruisers escorting it and blocking traffic). The BLM people did similar things, namely, invading quiet neighborhoods for general intimidation purposes. Reminds of what those crazy proddies do with their orange flags in Belfast on the 12th of July – just letting y'all know we're here and organized.

As far as I know, the Noahide thing is more of an English phenomenon. Never bumped into it here in the states (except on the internet).

As is laid out in CT 3B (at the link), there will indeed be a split in Israel (as was true in our Lord's day as well): 1) those who believe and respond to Moses and Elijah; 2) those who cast their lot with the beast; and 3) those who refuse to join either side but revolt against the beast in the waning days of the Tribulation.

Glad to hear that you are getting back to normal!

Keeping you and yours in my prayers daily – thanks for yours and for your good words!

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #10:
This L-ville shooting is disturbing. That's not something I would expect in Louisville. If I remember right, the campus is near downtown. I hope you were not caught up in that. I have and will continue to pray for your and your family's safety and well being.

There's an agonizing commonality in these mass shootings that doesn't auger well.

In our Lord Jesus,
Response #10:
Good to hear from you!

All is well here. They did shut down campus early yesterday . . . after I'd already just finished my four classes. Probably just as well not to get out of the routine. 

Re: "There's an agonizing commonality in these mass shootings that doesn't auger well." I'm sure they all have in common that the devil is behind them. Instituting the sort of all-embracing tyranny the beast will need in Babylon in order to do what he wants to do will require some setting of the table. No doubt this is a part of that. It also shows how little societal restraint is left almost anywhere or in anything. Also grist for the mill of a totalitarian take over.

Hold onto your hat. The next few years promise to be interesting. But we believers need to never forget that the Lord is watching out for us, no matter what.
Do all these evildoers know nothing? They devour my people as though eating bread; they never call on the LORD. But there they are, overwhelmed with dread, for God is present in the company of the righteous. You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor, but the LORD is their refuge.
Psalm 14:4-6 NIV
Thanks for those prayers!

How are things out on the prairie?

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #11:
Thank God all is well. Louisville has been in the news quite a bit lately with barges getting stuffed up, shootings and unrest. I was worried.

I agree Satan is behind all of this but more than just these deranged killers. A few years back, I read that 21 of 22 of these mass shootings were by mostly kids that had been on psychotropics like Ritilin (sp?) I believe Satan is behind all that, too, as he has throughout history, I've been brooding on Jeremiah lately. Particularly chapters 24-26 and how it relates to today which I intend to ask you about in another email when I settle on what I think I understand.

How did your exams go?

Things here on the prairie are absolutely beautiful right now. Texas may be occasionally damned with heat but it's also blessed with the most beautiful wild flowers I've ever seen and right now, they're at the height of their glory. The family came out for Easter in part because of the bluebonnets which are blooming literally all over the place. __ made carnitas and his sister brought the sides. We had a pleasant day, good eats and pleasant company, Four generations worth. He is a grand uncle which means there's dirt here on the prairie younger than me. C'est la guerre...

I pray all stays well and calm with you and yours.

In our Lord,
Response #11:
Interesting info.

Thanks for your concern, my friend. The Metro PD is under great pressure from the US Justice Dept. after a very partisan (in my view) "investigation" which was kicked off by the Briana Taylor fiasco . . . and invited by our former mayor (D). They are already some 300 short in terms officers, thanks in part to former mayor cancelling an entire academy class "to save money". So crime is up here and although things are not out of control yet ala SF or NY, the criminals are testing the system. 

The exams email was an old one from early last fall. My students this year have been pretty good, the ones who stuck with me, that is. I had a lot of drop outs in the spring for no other apparent reason than that Latin and Greek are hard (and probably harder than some anticipated).

Good to hear about your family and also your TX spring!

I'll be out in the yard in a couple of weeks. Weather is good for it now, but the next few weeks are very busy at school and they always tell you never to plant "before Derby" (May 6 this year). There's often a latish frost.

Keeping you in my prayers, my friend!

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #12:
Dear Teacher

Thank you so very much for the latest posting. It was wonderful to be reminded about politics and how it all works.

I haven't emailed all this time because I've been mulling over our discussions both on politics and sanctification in time and trying to get things in hand so that I can write you about them. In fact, I started working on a complete rewrite of the piece I wrote on politics, but I suspect that its completion is still perhaps several weeks out.

In your last email in this chain, I felt like I had not quite expressed myself very well because your response, while great for me as always, seemed to address something other than what I was asking. But then, my experience has been that very often, I'm asking the entirely wrong question, and your answer is often redirecting me to the right thing. That may very well be the case here. Still, it might help if I explain a bit what I was asking.

We had a conversation several weeks ago about watching podcasts online and, as I put it, "studying economics and politics." For me, it was about learning how the world works as the battleground for our faith so that we can take proper advantage of it for our own spiritual purposes. I felt pretty confident that I was doing the right thing, but then I started to wonder after the conversation because, in fact, it is wholly possible to let oneself be changed by all that stuff. After all, learning how politics works also led me into adopting a right-wing identity, if only briefly. That was not my intent, but it did happen. I have since decided that even if the right is the more sensible of the two wings, I'm not even in the mix to begin with. Still, that examination of the world to figure out how to orient myself toward it in the truth led to that.

At the moment, I am of the opinion that there are three ways of reasoning that we have available to us: carnal reasoning (that is, reasoning in opposition to God), natural reasoning (that is, reasoning within the limits of physical realities), spiritual reasoning (that is, reasoning from the position of spiritual, that is, biblical truth). What this means to me is that as believers invested in pleasing God, we learn to reason spiritually, that is, from the Bible's standpoint and never lose sight of the use of natural reasoning. So, for example, to deal with unbelievers and others who don't want to hear the truth, we have to have ways of conversing with them that do not involve casting our pearls and holy things before them (in my early years, that was quoting Scripture at people for me; today, it is that plus discussing biblical truths even without necessarily quoting Scripture at people who care nothing for such things). To be able to share this world with such people then, it seems to me that we have to use natural reasoning which is sanctified by the truth and uncorrupted by the flesh. It is also how we can offer a witness to the truth without actively shoving it in their faces since the natural world is something that even they can understand.

This was important to me because prior to coming to Ichthys, I couldn't make a difference between living to please God and not being obnoxious to other people. It felt like trying to be a reasonable person and making decisions about things of this life was a betrayal of the Lord. You'll remember the trouble I had with work, for example. I couldn't decide to pursue a career at the time I met you because there was something sinful in each thing I thought about doing, so in an effort to escape the corruption that was in the world, I wanted to run to farming and see if I could pursue a life that pleased God there. Now, of course, I don't have that concern anymore. That is why I talked about exploring the world to understand how it works. I wasn't talking strictly about understanding systems of thought although they are part of it. I was talking more about the reality of life in this world. I wanted to see how to apply the biblical truths we learn in correct tactical ways to our experiences in this life that would result in God's pleasure. We are not doing that application in a vacuum after all.

[omitted]

I suppose I'm saying that I really was a mess on the verge of insanity when I was brought to you, and learning the Bible gave me the critical "tool" I needed to "rebuild myself" into the person that God wants. I really didn't have much in the way of common sense then, so I have had to not only learn the truth about God and His plan but also about life in this world for a person living in a mortal body. If I was suicidal, I would have killed myself at 17 because I never really wanted to live in this world. I didn't like life or myself for a long time, so I was not willing to learn how to live in this world especially when what was being taught to me did not answer my question directly: Why did God create me? What does He want of me? I couldn't enjoy being alive because it felt like doing that was wrong, and I couldn't take myself out of life because I did not exist for myself. So, being smart or disciplined or motivated or whatever was not meaningful to me. That was why school was tedious and I had no interest in really learning anything of note. Finding Ichthys gave me the answer to my question. Now I'm learning to translate what I have learned from Ichthys into actual life experience. I only wish it had happened sooner, but then I also know that it only happened when I was ready for it.

This was supposed to be a short email before I run into the bathroom to prepare for church, but here I am again. 

Have you been well, Sir? We keep you in our prayers here. 

Your student in Jesus
PS: Once I felt like I had understood the principles of the natural world, I really didn't care to dig any further. I no longer watch the news or the podcasts nearly as much. It's very repetitive now. So, that has removed the angst from me.
Response #12:
Glad you enjoyed the posting!

I'm very happy to hear that you are feeling better about all things and that you are both doing well. 

In terms of how to relate to / talk to others about the truth, it sounds to me as if you are making great strides here. This is more of an apologetic thing. The witness of the life is what we are all responsible for – and then to offer pearls to those who desire them. In between we all have to be very careful about what we say and how and to whom. This is the opposite of how most evangelicals on this side of the ocean approach thing, having instead the attitude that the more perfect strangers you "button hole" and give the gospel to whether they are willing to not, the better Christian you are. Not that there isn't a place for evangelism and apologetics, but it seems to me that it would be more profitable – and more godly – if others took the approach that you are taking.

I fully understand the complications of family and responsibility when it comes to making large "life decisions". For us who understand the times we are in, so close to the Tribulation now, I think that makes such decisions more complicated in some respects.

You are a prize of grace, my friend! We all are. Whatever small and momentary troubles we are currently facing, they pale in comparison to the glories soon to come, even if we are looking at some real tribulation between here and there.

Keeping the both of you in my daily prayers.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #13:
Hi Bob,

I am sorry to write again on a subject from before but I am wondering again about praying for the very hard hearted? I have a fully developed prayer list now and one of the couples I pray for are an elderly couple that are old friends of my parents. The problem is that the husband has dementia now but even before that he has been (always been to be honest) very bullying and controlling over his wife. I was shocked to hear __ say today that his wife is barely allowed out because he can't go out, he has confiscated her mobile phone and checks the phone bills to make sure she isn't calling anyone. She has begged for respite care to give her a break even just for a week but he adamantly and aggressively refused to give her this. __ told me that she has become like a slave and has to do even the most basic thing like open a drawer for him even though he is still able. His wife is completely beaten down by this and a husk of her former self now that she is trapped in her home most days with her demanding husband.

I was praying for both of them, specifically to give her deliverance and for his heart to soften towards her but after hearing how he is getting worse and worse each time I hear about him, I was wondering if I should stop praying for him and only pray for his wife? I feel as though I am being pushed in this direction but how would I know this is prompting from the Holy Spirit?

I know we learn to distinguish His still small voice in time but I am not sure on this. Guilt creeps in when I consider this. I guess this makes me confused about whether I am making this decision myself on whether I like the person or not and this is what is prompting me as both __ and this man are engaging in very similar treatment of their wives and yet I feel it is time to stop praying for one of them?

Please advise me what is the right thing to do Biblically please?

I have been speaking to some female friends from my past and it has gone well over all in my witnessing my faith. They can see I have changed and I try to show them the fruit of the Spirit.
What has disturbed me is that most of them are in these same type of abusive relationships with men. Obviously women can be abusive too but I have noticed this a particularly alarming trend around me, even in Millennial couples.

I was also wondering about the verse about being 'given over to a reprobate mind'. I know that the Lord wants all to be saved but there is also a verse about how some are made for honour and some for dishonour. At the end of the day, I only want to do what our Lord wants me to do.

In Jesus,
Response #13:
There is much abuse in this world, and more and more day by day it seems. The lid is really coming off and that seems to be the case everywhere, abuse within relationships being just one area. Whenever I hear about one of these situations – and I hear about them all the time (yet still there are doubtless so many more all around us we don't hear about) – I do say a prayer for the abused. However, it is a sad fact that for a variety of reasons the abused often does not exit the relationship when it is clear the existential things said person should do (existential sometimes, tragically, in a very literal sense).

In terms of praying, I try not to second-guess my prayers. If I feel motivated to pray, I do so. If I don't feel that today for someone, but do tomorrow, I pray. If someone is "on my list", but for whatever reason I come to feel it's not longer appropriate or profitable to pray for them, then I commit them to the Lord and cease (in that case). We only have so much time in the day. There are clear times and circumstances and those hardened beyond recovery (at least they may seem so to us) where it's merely approaching legalism to persevere.
If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.
1st John 5:16 NKJV
None of us has perfect information and none of us is perfect in our approach for many reasons. So my policy is to try to do the best I can with this issue and not question these decisions after the fact. I am confident that the Spirit is well able to "bring me up short" if I have been letting down somewhere I should "raise up" a person. Otherwise, I make a point of not second-guessing. That is only wasted energy in the fight we are in. That is only looking backward. We have enough problems and opposition directly in front of us.

One other thing: if I say I'll pray for someone I do so, or at least try to remember to do so (no one is perfect). Prayer is a special, valuable and powerful weapon. We need to appreciate it and make use of it as often as possible.
Pray without ceasing.
1st Thessalonians 5:17 NKJV
I do pray for you daily.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #14:
Thanks Bob,

This has been most helpful to me my friend! I am so grateful for your guidance, teaching and fellowship! Yes, I agree that even though my prayer list (which is written down) is quite extensive now, at times I am led in one direction with it (or another) on which area to concentrate more on in prayer. I also am seeing which parts have become legalistic and almost rote prayer so I will keep revising this list as the Spirit leads me. At times it is obvious who needs to be lifted up in prayer as some situations rise to the surface and become urgently needful and these are the people and situations that I concentrate on. With some people it becomes an urgent crisis and then we have had huge deliverances through prayer (praise the Lord!) but then once they are delivered, sometimes these people disappear again and we don't hear of them. I have been keeping them in prayer even after their deliverance that it would lead them to the Lord. 

It is very common for people to suddenly 'get religious' or turn to others in their distress but then even when they are delivered (and I have now been around spectacular deliverances!) they just go back to their lives as before and do not seem to praise God or be changed by the experience of being delivered from such a shocking crisis. I have seen it quite a lot now whereby a person can be delivered even from the jaws of death (again in miraculous fashion) and it only makes them chase after the world after much more zealously as they believe this is making best use of the remainder of their lives here. That's probably why you have all these people making 'bucket lists' or '1001 things to do before you die', so it sometimes makes them worse than they were before in that their experience (which clearly shakes them) just encourages in themselves a more energetic reaching for the brass ring and life becomes even more hedonistic and therefore pointless than it was previously.

I am much more aware of this now. Not all deliverances of unbelievers will lead to saving faith. Does all deliverances of the faithful lead to spiritual growth, maturity and production?

Nevertheless I will keep on praying where I am led and notice where I am not led.

Keeping you and your ministry and family in my daily prayers my friend!

In Jesus,
Response #14:
It is so true. The Israelites praised the Lord with tambourines and dancing after their deliverance at the Red Sea . . . but it wasn't long before they were grumbling and complaining and blaming God for whatever discomfort they faced (lots about that in the latest Hebrews posting). Not much we who are grateful to Him no matter what betides can do – except to continue to demonstrate our faithfulness in appreciate of His absolute faithfulness, hoping others will take note of our witness. The witness of the life is often more powerful than that of words, however true they are.

But yes, we CAN pray for these people. So do continue, and thanks so much for your prayers on my behalf, my friend. Praying for you daily as well.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #15:
You are welcome. I read the link that was sent from the Hub site. Pre trib believers argue we won’t suffer Gods wrath.

1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son “from Heaven, “whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which “ delivered” (past tense) us from the wrath to come.

We have been delivered from the judgment of wrath of everlasting fire. The argument of 

Romans 5:9
Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

These 2 verses are no assurance of being raptured before Tribulation. I have heard of the accounts of the way the apostles were martyred for the gospel. I don’t know if the history accounts given are factual. Hebrews Chapter 11. Is fact. FAITH, and LOVE is what we must have to endure the wrath to come on this world. These died before the cross. Many have suffered wrath and died after the cross. Those who have died for the Gospel, were prayed up, full of courage, wisdom, lived and died daily. They were not perfect, but, walked hand in hand with our Savior Jesus. 

Is there some true history on the apostles deaths? Peter and Paul both preach some powerful messages that readers misinterpret. If Peter and Paul were martyred, yet spoke of being saved from the wrath to come. Then judgment day is the subject. Seeing they suffered wrath, not from God but from this wicked world.

I’m sorry I ramble. I really wish I had studied literature and English more.
Response #15:
A nice synopsis. Glad to hear you benefited from John's link.

Re: "Is there some true history on the apostles deaths?" The only thing "true" and demonstrably so is the Bible, and the Bible says nothing specific about Paul's death (however, the last chapter of 2nd Timothy does seem to indicate that he was expecting it to come soon at that point); Peter was given a "warning order" from the Lord that he would soon be brought home (2Pet.1:14), but there are no details in scripture about the date/place/manner of his death, although our Lord indicated that it would martyrdom (Jn.21:19).

There are extra biblical reports about the apostles but they are all somewhat late after the fact, based on tradition, impossible to verify (and likely suspect in much of their detail). Here is a link where I discuss this issue:
The Deaths of the 12 Disciples / Apostles of Christ.
In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #16:
The US will default on its debt limit soon, and both political parties want nothing to do with each other, to the point they seem to rather have this country collapse into nonexistence than agree with each other...if the default happens, what will become of your belief that the US is the Babylon of Revelation?
Response #16:
First off, that the USA will become mystery Babylon once the Tribulation begins is an interpretation. We will find out for sure once those seven years begin – and they have not yet begun.

Second, I don't see any developments that happen before then as necessarily significant to the interpretation – absent the USA being completely wiped out in a nuclear war or some such thing. Of course that would be the last thing that the devil wants in my view, because his scheme to have his son, antichrist, rule the world is highly dependent upon modern technology, transportation, communication, and the "one world" culture which all these things have fostered. Things are likely to get worse before the Tribulation all over the world, but this will only accelerate the pace of change. No one is smart enough to know how this or that development will affect things in terms of what is really going on behind the scenes.

Third, there are enough things that HAVE happened and that ARE happening that we don't need to be concerned about something that might – but probably won't – happen.
Question #17:
The truth is, if we default, with all the globalization that's happened, the entire world economy will collapse, no one will be safe.
Response #17:
If it doesn't happen, the question is moot. If it does happen, I guess we'll find out.

But I do know that the plan of God has never been altered in the tiniest degree and is playing out exactly according to its perfect original design. The Tribulation will arrive right on time . . . and so will the second advent return of our Lord and the resurrection of the Church – praise the Lord!
. . . looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Titus 2:13 NKJV
Question #18:
Hello Dr. Luginbill,

It is me again. LoL I am re-studying your study titled as above.

The following is your comment:

In each case, that of Nimrod and of antichrist both, the power behind the political movement by which they accomplish international unification is Satan. And in each case, the hidden purpose behind the unification is diabolical in the extreme, namely, the eradication from the earth of faith and of the faithful. 

I am curious, as I always am, Perhaps slew foot tried this when God built the original world in Genesis 1:1, which is the reason why the earth became dark? But, perhaps we have no way of knowing if it was so?

We do know from scripture that the LORD did not create the earth in darkness.

P.S. 
Bible Study going good, teaching your writings of the "Seven Seals". They are anxious to hear and learn. I told them at the beginning that I want to prepare them as well as myself for what is soon to come. It does not look good for mankind, everyday gets worse, but we are not of this world, Thanks be to the LORD for that.

Blessings to you,

Your friend,
Response #18:
God is light – but darkness is a judgment from Him. Light is for believers; darkness for unbelievers.
"I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the LORD, do all these things."
Isaiah 45:7 NKJV
The darkness of Genesis 1:2 is on the other side of the "gap" between verses one and two and expresses the situation in the universe after God's judgment on it in response to Satan's rebellion.
(1) Before all else, God created the heavens and the earth (i.e., perfectly). (2a) But the earth came to be ruined and despoiled . . .
Genesis 1:1-2a
This is all covered in detail at the link: SR 2: The Genesis Gap

Great news about your Bible study! It's every pastor-teacher's heart's desire to have a group of people who are anxious to be fed from the Word! So rare nowadays.

Keeping you and your ministry efforts in my prayers.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #19:
Hi Dr L,

I don't think you really care (I mean this in a positive sense), but I don't want to feel like I am lying, so I didn't do 48 hours. It was just the large workload, and I also have to pay almost a grand to replace a car part and I need to decide if I will walk 5 miles or take a taxi. I am ok overall though.

Anyway I was thinking about something. I used to sort of think having great faith was easy, and not think much of the greats like Job and Abraham and think I would do better than the Israelites. but I think I see now that, wow I have a lot of issues. I can tell you, just thoughts [omitted]. And it is amazing to me that Job and Abraham did not have the Bible (though it seems they did get God literally talking to them, but still). And I think, wow I have the Bible and I spend some good time on it regularly, what is wrong with me. Sigh.

I was being further introspective and had a realization. It may seem obvious to you, but for some reason it was not to me. And it is that: you can live alone in a solitary place inaccessible to others and still live a life of Faith. There is prayer and worship and (if you have the Bible) learning from that or from nature, and trying to live out His truths...even if you are all alone. And this realization comfort me a lot.

I hope you are well,
Response #19:
Very sorry to hear about your auto.

I had an old Volvo bought second hand which got to the point of the mental list of problems with it running to several dozen items. But it ran, even though the repairs I had to make to it got to the point of being more than a car payment. Finally it stopped running reliably (sometimes it would start; sometimes not). So I bit the bullet several years back and got a new car . . . with a payment. It turned out to be a good decision. 

Paul, one of the greatest believers of all time, tells us that he never compared himself to others or assumed anything about his "spiritual scoreboard" (1Cor.4:3). A good policy on both hands it seems to me.

However, we CAN draw encouragement from the great believers of the Bible . . . and also some solace by remembering that they all failed as well from time to time. They were human just like us. Whenever they did – or we do – anything spiritually successful it is through the Spirit that we do so.

Yes indeed, believers today have wonderful advantages. We have the Holy Spirit! And we have the whole Bible! And we have good teaching (that is how I like to think of Ichthys, in any case). But it is amazing how little most believers today take advantage of these wonderful things. That is classic Laodicea. 

I'm grateful for your faithfulness to the truth, my friend. None of us is perfect. It's the believers like yourself who stay faithful and keep plugging away at spiritual growth who will win the race – and be ready for what is coming swiftly.
"Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown."
Revelation 3:11 NKJV
In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #20:
Dear Teacher

We're very sorry to hear that. We are praying for that more specifically now. Thank you for your prayers, Sir. A thought that I just had: I know that you take for granted that there will be casualties from the Bowl Judgments, but I've wondered on and off for some time if part of the attraction that the world may have to the mark of the beast is some promise of some form of invulnerability to God's judgments upon the world that it will provide at the time. That is, that it might have a sorcerous component to it that does something to the body. 

Obviously, this will not prevent those who have it from suffering the effects of the Bowl Judgments, but it seems that the lack of any specific mention of death in the Bowl Judgments until the Second Advent might at least in part point to why people got even more blasphemous despite their pain. That is, might they be thinking that now they are protected from death even if they still suffer pain and sores, therefore, they could still win against this wicked God that is afflicting them?

One argument for this is that in my culture, it is a bit of a legend that you can gain from sorcery an invulnerability to physical attacks that could end your life. Biblically, it seems to also be pointed to in the case of the demoniacs at the Gerasenes and the maniac that beat up the seven sons of Sceva. There is also the fact of the terrible flood that God brought on the world to destroy the Nephilim which (together with the Antichrist's survival of a mortal wound), points to the hardiness of the Nephilim (something I seem to remember you saying too, but I could be wrong).

An argument against it is that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, so it is entirely possible that we are to assume that there were fatalities among those with the mark. You do say,

'Human fatalities are also to be understood here as well (cf. Rev.8:9b), since it is not only “everything in the sea” which perishes but everything (and everyone) “in contact” with the sea at the instant this judgment comes down.'

I assume that that includes even people with the mark of the beast that are in contact with the sea at the time of this judgment.

I also wonder if it is the type of contact with the sea that kills the creatures. Do the creatures that die because of this plague die because they can't breathe or function in blood? Sea-going vessels on the water at the time would also break down unless their functions could continue in the new environment. Anyone swimming then is probably certain to drown. The ebbing and flowing of the tides may also change because it is now all blood rather than water, so there will be consequences of that too. Would all that be about right?

If so, is it possible that the possession of a sorcerous mark could preserve people from dying even in that case so that it would seem that everyone who will take the mark is given every reason to do so in preparation for the slaughter of the Second Advent? In other words, could the judgments of the second half of the Tribulation be about pushing the arrogance of those hostile to God to its limits so that the slaughter of all those having the mark of the beast is proven to be perfectly justified at the Second Advent? For us, there is no question about the justice of it, but the graphic description of Jesus' execution of these people in Zech 14, for example, is pretty gruesome. It looks quite a lot like a year-long worldwide flood. Those without understanding might wonder if it is overkill. But it really isn't if God is showing just how detestable their wickedness is and also showing that even the "protections" that they have acquired will not save them from Him.

What do you think, Sir?

Your student in Jesus
Response #20:
Thanks so much for the prayers! I'll keep you in the loop.

Re: the Bowl Judgments: While there are no figures of losses as are given for the Trumpet Judgments, for the seventh Bowl we do have 2) an earthquake described as follows: "No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake" (Rev.16:18 NIV); and "the cities of the nations collapsed" (Rev.16:19 NIV); and "Every island fled away and the mountains could not be found." (Rev.16:20 NIV); 2) 100lb. hail (Rev.16:21). It's hard to believe that these events would not cause mass casualties. Also, the seventh Bowl, "It is done!" (meaning this is the final event before Christ's return), tells us that the judgment on Babylon and Armageddon are part of this judgment (and both certainly do involve mass casualties). Added to the likely (in my view) casualty list of the first six Bowls and with the four horrible trends which are ongoing throughout the seven years (the four horsemen seals), this is consonant with our passages about the Tribulation:
"I will make men more rare than gold, and mankind than the choice bullion of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth will quake from its place on account of the anger of the Lord and on the day of His fierce wrath."
Isaiah 13:13

"If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened."
Matthew 24:22 NIV
Re: "Contact with the sea": I say it this way because that is what the Greek text says/means. What you say is interesting and might explain the mechanics of it. It could also be a direct judgment from the Lord, striking down all in this situation at the time.

I don't think it's necessary for there to be any preservation of individuals who have taken the mark. There will be around 8 billion people on earth (or more) when the Tribulation begins, and scripture indicates that the majority will worship the beast. Billions upon billions could die before the end and still leave more than enough marked individuals to perish at Armageddon. The only thing the mark will do is exempt those who have it from antichrist's economic restrictions and from his persecution of those who refuse it (nothing more), but at the same time of course confirming their eternal damnation.

Thanks again for those prayers!

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #21:
Dear Teacher

Thank you very much. I was just wondering what the attraction to the mark might be for some people. I figured that it would probably not be beyond the pale to think that there might be some actual sorcery attached to it because why else would people take it as former Christians who knew that the Bible warned stringently against it? I suppose that the deceitfulness of sin, the madness of arrogance, and the rejection of plain truth are rather obvious in their effects, so there is hardly a need for more than that to cause people to do something so foolhardy.
Response #21:
Re: "wondering what the attraction to the mark might be"; well, most people need to eat; unless you live on a farm, that is hard to do when you cannot buy or sell without the mark.

In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #22:
Thanks Bob,

It would be overwhelming if we weren't built on the rock wouldn't it! Thankfully we are anchored in to Him and His Word and He is unchanging. So it all points to the same thing, to keep on with our walk with Christ no matter what and keep praying for those caught up in this overpowering deception. 

We've talked about drowning before. We don't let them drown us with them and we don't wait around for the Antichrist to pose as lifeguard, we show them that we can walk on water without fear. We show them that God doesn't change and so our trajectory and our final destination will not change either as long as we stick to the course and go the distance. Amen!

Seeing the whole world being tossed into the sea and buffeted on all sides by the winds of change makes me very glad that I am on dry land and sticking on the narrow path!

In Jesus,
Response #22:
That's right!

We are actually walking a true rainbow of a road that rises above all of the noise and the churn down here. We have a right – a duty and an obligation – to trust the Lord, to enter into His rest, and to walk that path hand in hand with Him in peace, not letting ourselves be overly disturbed by anything that is happening around us, big picture or small. This is not so simple and none of us is anywhere near perfect in this, but it is possible, it is a much happier way to make our way through this world, and mastering the "faith rest" approach we've been called upon to employ is going to be all that much more crucial once the Tribulation begins.

And, yes, that in the end is the best witness of all, even if it results in our martyrdom for Jesus Christ (link).
"They triumphed over him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; they did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death."
Revelation 12:11 NIV
In Jesus,

Bob L.
Question #23:
Thank you so much my friend for your prayers and encouragement! And so glad to hear of good news for you!

I am struggling to understand Daniel 9 about the 70 weeks. I did a Google search on this and it seems that most who write to you already have a basic grasp over what it means and are merely writing to thresh out the smaller details. The problem is, as I have not been around believers for most of my life, I don't know about this at all. So you would have to see me as an absolute novice on this. I understand that it is prophecy and that like all prophesy it deals with the immediate future but also of the end times. I also understand that weeks can mean years but other than that, I am very confused.

It is normal to be confused about this one? Please go easy with me on this one as I am even struggling to understand Unger's commentary on this as like all commentary on this, it seems that this prophesy is so famous that commentators always assume that the reader knows a lot already about it. Please assume that I know nothing about it and then pitch it a grade lower than that!

Thanks in advance my friend!

In Jesus,
Response #23:
It's my pleasure.

On the 70 weeks, here is my expanded translation of the passage (found in Coming Tribulation part 3B: Antichrist and his Kingdom [at the link]):
(24) Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to complete the rebellion and consummate sins (i.e., to bring apostasy to the full), to atone for iniquity and bring in everlasting righteousness (i.e., the saving work of Christ), and to seal up vision and prophecy and anoint the holy of holies (i.e., the coming of the Kingdom). (25) So know and understand that from the issuing of a decree to desist [from rebuilding Jerusalem] (in ca. 485 B.C.: Ezra 4:6-23), and for the rebuilding of Jerusalem (beginning forty-two years later in ca. 443 B.C. and taking an additional seven years to complete: cf. Ezra 7:11-28; Neh. chap.1-6) until Messiah the prince there will be seven weeks (i.e., between the decree and the rebuilding) and sixty-two weeks (i.e., between the rebuilding and the birth of Christ in ca. 2 B.C.).(29) [Jerusalem] will be repopulated and rebuilt with streets (i.e., residential reconstruction) and fortifications (i.e., military reconstruction) [and will remain so] even during difficult times (e.g., the occupation of Antiochus Epiphanes). (26) And after the sixty two weeks, Messiah will be cut off and have nothing (cf. Is.53:8), and the people of the prince who is coming (i.e., antichrist) will destroy both the city and the holy place. And his end will come with a flood (i.e., the "flooding away" of his armies at Armageddon; cf. the same Hebrew word, sheteph, שטף, in Dan.11:22; Nah.1:8), and until that end there will be wars – [appalling] devastation has been decreed. (27) Then he (i.e., antichrist) will confirm an agreement (or "covenant"; Hebrew, ברית, beriyth) with the powerful [in Israel] during [that] one [remaining] week (i.e., the 70th week, the Tribulation), but in the middle of the week (i.e., just prior to the Tribulation's mid-point) he will put a halt to sacrifice and offering (i.e., eliminating Moses and Elijah and interrupting the temple rites). And on account of the extreme [nature] of [his] abominations, he [will] be causing desolations (i.e., desertion and estrangement from God), even until the end when what has been determined will be poured out upon the one characterized by [this] desolation (i.e., the beast as archetype and cause of the alienation and rebellion from God which he fosters).
Daniel 9:24-27
Thus, the seventy weeks (literally, seventy "sevens" but a "seven" is also a "week" of seven days) are a timeline of sorts for the remaining history of the Jewish people before the coming of the Messiah. Each day of these weeks represents a year, you are correct, so that what we have here are the final 490 years of the Jewish Age laid out for us so that we might now what is going to happen (generally speaking) in the prophetic future from the point of the prophecy forward. The reason for using "weeks of years" is precisely because of the final "week", the seven years of the Tribulation, the very last part of the Age of Israel.

Most conservative (by which I mean "Bible believing") exegetes agree on the last point, namely, that the final week of years is in fact the Tribulation, a time period which can be seen to last roughly seven years from the way in which the Great Tribulation which begins "in the middle of the week" above is always described (see the link). Disagreements have mostly centered on how the other 483 years are to be understood, especially the split between the "seven weeks" and the "sixty two weeks". The interpretation advanced in the parentheses above is unique to Ichthys but it is based upon a very careful and detailed study of the Hebrew and its comparison to the historical facts which may be known about that period. I am very sure that is it correct, but even for those who might disagree, the truly important point about the 69 weeks is that they clearly represent the time period for the Jewish Age before Christ's first advent, leaving the 70th week for the Tribulation which follows, follows, that is, in terms of prophetic time, after the gap of the mystery age is inserted, the Church Age in which we presently find ourselves (albeit in the "late innings" of Laodicea). On this, again, most conservative exegetes agree. What can be confusing for English readers without a deep understanding of these matters is the break that has to be understood at Daniel 9:26: 
"And after the sixty two weeks, Messiah will be cut off and have nothing (cf. Is.53:8) . . . [BREAK] . . . and the people of the prince who is coming (i.e., antichrist) will destroy both the city and the holy place."
The "break" here is the Church Age, the mystery age, the age which can be seen retrospectively in the Jewish ceremonial calendar (link).  and which also is represented by the fifth and sixth millennial days (link).  As you probably know, I believe that rather than the Church Age coming to an end before the Tribulation, the last seven years of the Jewish Age, begins, instead there is an overlap with the two ages running concurrently at the end just before the second advent. There are many reasons for this (see the link).  In practical terms, this would mean that the Tribulation would begin in 2026 (based upon a 33 A.D. date for our Lord's crucifixion and resurrection), rather than 2033. For one thing, it seems to me pretty hard to explain what Church Age believers are doing here during those last those seven years if our age has completely come to an end. But we clearly are since we are told throughout the New Testament to look forward to Christ's return. And also there is this passage:
So we ask you, brothers, in regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ [discussed in chapter one, verses 3-12], and our assembling together to Him [in resurrection at His return (cf. 1Cor.15:51-54)], that you not be so easily moved from your correct understanding [of these matters], nor disturbed [by doubts about what you should know to be true] – not even if [this "new information" purports to come] through a spirit, or an [inspired] word or a letter supposedly from me, declaring that the Day of the Lord is already upon us. Do not let anyone deceive you in any way. For [the 2nd Advent cannot come] unless the Apostasy [the great falling away of the faithful in the first half of the Tribulation] has already occurred, and the man of lawlessness [antichrist] has been revealed [an event also occurring in the Tribulation], that "son of destruction" (i.e., characterized by, author of, and doomed to destruction), the one who will oppose and exalt himself against every so-called god and object of worship to such a degree that he will take his seat in the temple of God and represent himself as being God. Don't you remember that while I was still with you I was explaining these things to you?
2nd Thessalonians 2:1-5
The above is hard to explain unless "we" are still here for those final seven years, and if we are, it's hard to explain how the Church Age, the age of the Spirit who will continue to indwell us to the end, can no longer exist. So to me understanding an overlap between the last seven years of the Church Age and the last seven years of the Jewish Age, the seventieth week, the Tribulation.

It's also important to remember that the angel who is sent to Daniel and who relates this prophecy to him is responding to Daniel's prayer undertaken when he came to understand the 70 years prophecy of desolation of Israel given to Jeremiah (Dan.9:2; cf. Jer.25:11-12; 29:10). Daniel asks the Lord for restoration, and in this new prophecy he is given to understand the phases of the restoration (i.e., before and after the "seven sevens") and the time until the Messiah would come (after the further "sixty two sevens"), along with some very detailed information about the Tribulation which follows, prophetically, after our Lord ascends to heaven . . . but of course with the mystery of the Church Age being interpolated in-between (that was not yet given even to Daniel to understand; cf. 1Pet.1:10-12; and see the link in BB 6B: "The Mystery Age and the Mystery Complement"). For instance, we see in Daniel 9:27 the splitting of the seventieth week at its midpoint when the "abomination which causes desolation" is installed at the temple of Jerusalem and the Great Tribulation, the 42 weeks or second half of the seventieth week / Tribulation as a whole begins. Everything Daniel records here meshes perfectly with all other information in the Bible about these events, correctly understood that is. 

So while some prophecies do have multiple applications, this one only applies to "the immediate future" for Daniel and those following him before the advent of the Messiah, with the last week having to do with events that have not yet taken place for any of us. 

Here are a couple of other links where related issues are discussed:
Days equal years in the 70 weeks prophecy
Daniel's 70th week
The sequence of "weeks" in Daniel chapter nine
What are the 69 Weeks in Daniel 9:25?
Please do feel free to write me back about any of the above.

Thanks for your prayers too, my friend!

In Jesus,

Bob L.
http://ichthys.com/