On Jesus And The Trinity
Question #1:
Acts 20:28
Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.
The Holy Spirit (God Almighty) Bought the Church with His Own Blood. Halleluyah.
A gentleman asked the other time on this platform that , what is the name.of the Holy Spirit? I loved the question.
In Matthew 28:19, Jesus directed His disciples to baptise in THE NAME (Singular) of The Father and of The Son and of The Holy Spirit. Go through the scriptures especially the Book of Acts (Acts 2:38, Acts 19:5, Colossians 3:17, Acts 10:48) ; you will know that the disciples baptised in the Name of Jesus. The Name of The Father, and Of The Son and of The Holy Spirit is Jesus!
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are no names but TITLES; just like one person could be The Farmer, Father and Husband. May the Lord grant you understanding.
Response #1:
Hi.
I'm quoting your post for reference purposes, so please feel free to ignore my comment. It is not really meant to address you although it will address what you have said. You may respond if you please, but I may not carry on the conversation, since this is a fundamental break in our (yours and mine) common claim to faith in Christ and we have proven in the past that our views cannot be reconciled.
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth.
John 14:16-17a (NIV)
The above passage is self-explanatory. Obviously, the Lord Jesus is not the Father or the Spirit. These are different Persons from Him Who share the same divine essence with Him. They are all God, but they are separate Persons from One Another. The whole Bible bears this out. The following passage is further proof.
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life —only to take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
John 10:17-18 (NIV)
It is not impossible to twist the Scriptures to teach all manner of lies. This is one reason that James warns us not to aspire to be teachers. Not everyone has the gift of teaching. And even among those who do, the training and testing that are necessary to come into full-fledged ministry often prevent some of us from ever becoming pastor-teachers. So, the fact that someone can post Bible passages and insist that they mean this or that is not conclusive proof that they know what they are talking about.
...our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
2 Peter 3:15b-16 (NKJV)
Question #2:
2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is , there is liberty.
Is the above in your Bible?
Response #2:
This passage above is actually one of the most explicit passages that teach that, contrary to the claims of the Jehovah's Witnesses sect, for example, the Holy Spirit is both a Person and is also God. The Greek word used here is kyrios which was also the New Testament term for the Hebrew YHWH in the Old Testament in addition to other things.
As we know, YHWH was vocalized adonai which is the word most commonly translated both "lord" and "master" in the Old Testament in English versions of the Bible. So the use of kyrios, which translates adonai in the New Testament, here makes clear that the Holy Spirit is just as much God as Jesus and the Father both are.
An important point to keep in mind here is that Scriptures do not break each other. They all agree. So rejecting the witness of a part of the Bible ostensibly in favor of another one or to subordinate one to the other is a good way to end up in serious error.
This passage here only teaches that the Holy Spirit is also God by using the same title for God that the Father gave to Moses for His Identification to the Hebrews. It does not teach that the Holy Spirit is the same Person as Jesus Christ, especially not when other Scriptures clearly teach that He is not.
Question #3:
John 14:8-9
[8]Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
[9]Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
You can't accept this truth because The Spirit is not in you. You must be born again, bro
Response #3:
And, of course, since Jesus is God just like the Father is God, dealing with One is dealing with the Other. Seeing Jesus is seeing the Father. No one will get anything different from the Father than they would have got from Jesus. This still does not mean that the two are one person. It only means that they are the same kind of person.
As I said, don't worry about me. I am happy to teach what I have learned and let those who have ears hear. To be born again at this point would make it being born a third time. It sounds like apostasy to me. So I have no plan to accommodate it in my life. That is why I urged you not to bother to change my mind. My answers are not for you, because I don't believe you are looking for any answers. So please ignore me and continue to believe and teach what you like. The reward for that is between you and the Lord.
Question #4:
John 14:8-9
[8]Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
[9]Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
Response #4:
What more is there to say? Should the Lord Jesus have said something different to demonstrate that He and the Father were of one kind? Maybe the Scriptures could have put it some other way, but we do have other Scriptures to make sure that we don't fall into the madness of the lie that the Father and Jesus are the same person. So this Scripture stands exactly as written: the Lord Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are all the same kind of Person. However things turn out with One is how they will turn out with the Other.
I have nothing more to say. As I said, please believe and teach what you like.
Question #5:
My brother. You are also confirming my fears that Jesus is just like other Messengers of God. Because most of them behaved alike in their prophecies, teaches and miracle works). Meaning that You(Jesus) can't be God if you are "a kind of him" according to you insinuations.
So hope you can accept this reality you have just submitted? Else I don't know how we will see clear English language and twist it.
Seems 'God is spirit' looks more authentic and widely acceptable. The whole confusion if you notice is in the other factor Jesus ( meaning, something must be wrong somewhere)
Response #5:
Hi there.
I'm afraid I don't understand. Where did I say that Jesus was "a kind of God"?
God is Spirit, of course. I'm not sure what confusion there is in that. What that means is just that God is not made of any material that this creation is made of. The "substance" of God is Spirit. This is true of all Persons of God -- of the Father, of Jesus, and of the Holy Spirit. They are all Spirit. The difference with Jesus is that He also acquired a created nature so He is both Spirit and human unlike the other Two.
Question #6:
Acts 9:4-5
[4]Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”
[5]And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.”
You must be born again
Response #6:
I'm not sure what bearing that that has on anything here. Should we expect something else from that passage? I think not.
Question #7:
So if God was not made of any material that this creation is made of , how come he took the nature of the human(made of creation) manifested in birth of Jesus? Is this not absolutely contradictory?
God is spirit ! Yes
Something is not quite right with the factor Jesus. That's my point
Response #7:
Please understand that I don't take responsibility for what anyone wants to or doesn't want to believe. If you cannot accept something as true, I'm fine with your choice to reject it. I'm really not invested in your choices. They're entirely your prerogative.
I see nothing contradictory in God putting on human flesh. Why that is a problem is something I really don't know. Is it impossible for a king to humble himself to peasantry for a little while? We humans manage that quite well, but somehow this is something contradictory when God does it?
I believe that God added a human nature to His divine one in order to die for us. It doesn't confuse me or leave me incredulous. It makes sense to me. It makes sense to all those who are being saved. I don't really know how I can help you if you find it contradictory.
Question #8:
My brother I'm only asking a question. Isn't it contradictory to say God who is also a spirit who is not made of any material (from creation) manifested himself (jesus) in a human nature ?
My brother check am naa .
Response #8:
I'm sorry, I must have missed your question. What I saw was an erroneous attribution to me and a complaint about what I believe.
As for the question that you asked above, I already said that I don't see how it is contradictory. Maybe you need to explain yourself a little better so that I can understand what the contradiction you refer to is.
Question #9:
The definition of God is eternal, i.e no beginning and no end. A man that has a date of birth has a beginning. God becoming a man is a contradiction. It's like a bachelor getting married and still being called a bachelor. The very definition of a bachelor is an unmarried man. Saying a bachelor got married made him no longer a bachelor. The same way saying God became a man no longer makes the man God.. The only true GOD is the Creator of heaven and earth. The creator of all the creation. The creator that sent all the prophets to tell us about him and they did just that and man turned Jesus (peace be upon him) a creation of God to God when Jesus didn't say that. How long do you think it would take Jesus to just say the "I am God, worship me". He lived 30something years (according to the bible) and he missed out the most important message the Christians claim today. I don't think he was trying to be humble. He is a servant of God not God. Worship his God
Response #9:
Hello.
The above is like saying that the definition of a man is naked and that wearing clothes is a contradiction.
Certainly, God is self-existing. That is, He does not owe His existence to anything outside of Himself. Having a body and human spirit made for Him so that He can use it to die for human sin does not change the fact that He is self-existing.
Question #10:
This example get as e be
. And this issue of God dying (Another contradiction) is the same as the man having a beginning issue. God = no beginning and no end and at the same time god had a birth (a beginning) and a death (an end) is a contradiction.. Nobody can die for anyone's sin and nobody can inherit anyone's sin.
And God committing suicide or getting killed by his creation to forgive his creation sins is all shades of ridiculous
Let's say you stole a sweet from my shop, all I have to do if I want to forgive you after pleading is just forgive you. Imagine I tell you "I'll forgive you on one condition, kill my innocent son that is sleeping at home and we are even". That's way worse than the crime you even committed. All I have to do is just forgive you. No killing or anything has to happen.
Response #10:
As I said to your cohort___, it's not my job to dictate what you believe or don't believe. That's your right as an autonomous human being. If you believe that something is ridiculous, then dismiss it and pay it no further mind. If you think that it makes all the sense in the world, then believe it and live by it. My opinion does not need to count.
Question #11:
We are trying to be as logical as possible. Nobody is dismissing each others opinion(in my case).
Response #11:
*No response*